U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-16-2010, 11:37 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by serrendipity View Post
Theres is a path to go through to go from being a illegal immigrant to a legal one. It's called legally immigrating. Many legal immigrants have already gone that route, hence the whole "legal" word. Come on.....is this really news?
So laws are immutable? Once a thing is deemed illegal there is a divine morality that surrounds it and you can't change that? So the entire basis of our nation (a process set up to address changing situations) doesn't apply in this case?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-17-2010, 12:05 AM
 
Location: deep in the south
233 posts, read 389,677 times
Reputation: 117
The laws are written in black and white and are supposed to be in place for the common good of all and ALL must follow them or chaos ensues. When my son was being a jerk and ran afoul of a law and came for me to get him a lawyer to get him out of it I told him, "You knew the law, you also figured it didn't apply to you. Your fault, you did the crime you do the time, you are expected to follow the laws as everybody else is without exception" He did 18 months for being stupid.......his first and last time thinking the law doesn't apply to him. If I can make my own son follow the letter of the law instead of looking for the loophole or the easy way out why wouldn't I insist these illegals do the same? Why do you think it should be any different for these people who made the conscious CHOICE to disobey the laws of the land here? What makes them more special and deserving of citizenship than the ones who have spent the time waiting in their own countries for the right to immigrate? Is it because they made that choice and showed that they lack moral fibre? In some way are they so much more deserving than any others out there that too just "want a better life"? These people made their choices but now choose to call foul when they are called to pay for their actions, they want the playing field slanted in their favor and sorry but thats not right or fair.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2010, 12:25 AM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollies mom View Post
The laws are written in black and white and are supposed to be in place for the common good of all and ALL must follow them or chaos ensues. When my son was being a jerk and ran afoul of a law and came for me to get him a lawyer to get him out of it I told him, "You knew the law, you also figured it didn't apply to you. Your fault, you did the crime you do the time, you are expected to follow the laws as everybody else is without exception" He did 18 months for being stupid.......his first and last time thinking the law doesn't apply to him. If I can make my own son follow the letter of the law instead of looking for the loophole or the easy way out why wouldn't I insist these illegals do the same? Why do you think it should be any different for these people who made the conscious CHOICE to disobey the laws of the land here? What makes them more special and deserving of citizenship than the ones who have spent the time waiting in their own countries for the right to immigrate? Is it because they made that choice and showed that they lack moral fibre? In some way are they so much more deserving than any others out there that too just "want a better life"? These people made their choices but now choose to call foul when they are called to pay for their actions, they want the playing field slanted in their favor and sorry but thats not right or fair.
He should be deported if he committed a serious offense.

Also, the whole "spending the time to immigrate" is exactly why we need to change the laws. My mom almost died waiting (medical complications, they lost her visa paperwork). My friend's dad hand was cut off because the consulate lost his paperwork (he left because he angered his home regime). The wait times are too ridiculous.

Why not a wholesale change of the system?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2010, 07:47 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
So laws are immutable? Once a thing is deemed illegal there is a divine morality that surrounds it and you can't change that? So the entire basis of our nation (a process set up to address changing situations) doesn't apply in this case?
Sure our laws can be changed by citizens lobbying to make those changes but illegals marching in our streets demanding that our laws be changed to accomodate them is beyond reason.

Also, until or if a law is changed we are obligated to follow them, both citizen and foreigner.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2010, 10:17 AM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Sure our laws can be changed by citizens lobbying to make those changes but illegals marching in our streets demanding that our laws be changed to accomodate them is beyond reason.
The system is broken. I want it fixed. Thus, I want the laws to reflect actuality. It's within the realm of reason.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2010, 11:14 AM
 
1,891 posts, read 2,178,918 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
The system is broken. I want it fixed. Thus, I want the laws to reflect actuality. It's within the realm of reason.
Do tell me how it is "broken".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2010, 11:34 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
The system is broken. I want it fixed. Thus, I want the laws to reflect actuality. It's within the realm of reason.
So what do you mean by broken? We don't allot enough visas for the poor, unskilled and uneducated? Let's assume that is what you mean by broken. If that is so then you must be aware that there are more immigrants in that catagory that want to come here than the demand for them. How do you stop the surplus from coming here illegally then? Once the ones who are here already are legalized and the employer has to pay them more than they do now do you actually think they will want more here via our new higher quotas or continue to seek out the new illegal ones that will come afterwords so that they can go back to paying less again? The cycle will never end.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2010, 03:00 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lariat View Post
Do tell me how it is "broken".
Are you serious? It's not broken then. No, its perfectly fine that millions of illegal immigrants are here because of series of policies that don't reflect the labor market. It makes complete and utter sense that we should NOT address the reality of the situation and try to find the best possible outcome for BOTH parties involved. I mean, the system isn't broken...right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2010, 03:08 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
So what do you mean by broken? We don't allot enough visas for the poor, unskilled and uneducated? Let's assume that is what you mean by broken. If that is so then you must be aware that there are more immigrants in that catagory that want to come here than the demand for them. How do you stop the surplus from coming here illegally then? Once the ones who are here already are legalized and the employer has to pay them more than they do now do you actually think they will want more here via our new higher quotas or continue to seek out the new illegal ones that will come afterwords so that they can go back to paying less again? The cycle will never end.
My mom's not educated. She was poor. Now we're not as poor. So was a HUGE percentage of immigrants during the previous wave of immigration. Huh I wonder how we managed? Oh that's right...we created public schools to educate children. We later developed a modern bureaucracy and reformed labor laws. We created a police force and fire fighting force. Public Health was created. We did it before.

You stop the surplus of those coming illegally by realizing that there needs to be a fair mechanism. You can have a sector based quota (quotas by industry) as opposed to national origin based quotas (the process could be first come first serve...which is more fair).

You're assumption is flawed on many levels. You never stated the parameters of employer based quotas (in many industries they are easily renewed). If you don't make the costs prohibitive, then you reduce the chance of entering illegal. You shift the benefit. The main reasons of entering illegally are time and money. If you streamline the process and reduce fees, you hit the biggest contributors of illegal immigration.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2010, 03:26 PM
 
107 posts, read 126,901 times
Reputation: 96
Were talking illegal immigrants here right. What about "illegal" don't you understand? Were also talking about a criminal.

Where are the rights of the american tax payer, or for the "legal Immigrants" for that matter. Why should the rights of people here illegally supercede those of citizens. Free lunches, wic, medical, education, etc.

Last time I looked the United States wasn't flush with cash. What we don't need is what we have now a illegal population unable to financially support themselves to offset the cost of them being here.

Look around you at the real estate market, the jobs lost, unemployment, of course we don't need the additional problem of criminal illegals.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top