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Old 09-12-2010, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,896 posts, read 5,866,353 times
Reputation: 6050

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Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
The rub of course is that these chldren are ours. We let them stay and their parents earn a living. Many of these children have never live anywhere else in their memory .

So what we are proposing to do is send them off to a foreign country where they have no roots or experience.

We also have a substantial investment in these children. It costs a bundle to educate a child through high school. As a general note people pay more in to the society when they complete education above high school. High school is about the break even point. So we can expect these children to be neutral or better in their economic dealings with the society.

We have no legal committment to these kids...but we do have a moral one.
My children have a legal and moral commitment to their children and they struggle to fullfill their commitments, with precious little left over.

As for a foriegn country with no roots....come on.....

What about we do something about the inner city kids that are not getting educated, drop out of school, go on welfare and/or drugs ? Why dont we use that money for those children. There is only so much to go around. This country is not a bottomless pit of money, witness the national debt....again, in my mind, the arguments that people put forth in this vein are without merit and serves their pro illegal agenda.

 
Old 09-12-2010, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,896 posts, read 5,866,353 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by hideandseekforever View Post
Maybe that is the case for non-Latinos, but many Americans of Latin American descent are now are being a target of discrimination and racism for policies and practices that they have nothing to do with. My family and I have nothing to do with corrupt American politicians or the fact that American businesses feel entitled to cheap labor. We have NOTHING to do with the incompetence of the American government when it comes to illegal immigration. My parents paid thousands of dollars and went through some incredible hoops to be here, and I have family members in the military who have passed away in the Iraq war, and that means nothing to most Americans. The fact that my skin is brown and that I have a Spanish surname sure has hell does. Spokespeople for "La Raza" no more speak for me than Rush Limbaugh speaks for all white people. This whole illegal immigration thing has honestly turned me very bitter about this country. What is the point of even trying to assimilate when nothing will appease these people? Everyone in my family speaks English, my father was a physics doctorate, I have engineers and business owners in my family, but nope. ALL most Americans see is the fact that I'm "Hispanic." They would much rather attack the random brown person on the street than attack their own politicians who enable their mess. So what's the point? On to the nihilism.
I am sorry for the trouble you have been through. The illegals have given the people here legitimately a very bad name.

I have Spanish/Spanish speaking clients. They are wonderful people, very attractive personally, hard working and I am sure they made it in the first amnesty program but......I am glad to know them. I know several illegal Mexicans, have had them in my home, but I do not agree with breaking the law and they know how I feel about it.
 
Old 09-12-2010, 03:19 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 15,946,342 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Outcast View Post
The media and various liberal groups have done a great job at confusing the public about immigration. Basically everyone who is new to this country who was not born in America is called an immmigrant. If you are against illegal aliens invading our country you are called anti immigrant. People who support illegal immigration just called them undocumented and say they just came for a better life. We are constantly reminded that we are all immigrants unless we are 100% Indian.

I also find that most Americans do not understand the process one goes through to become a legal immigrant. They tell me that the current "undocumented" should just simply report to the US Embassy and get the necessary papers and they will magically become legal. (They think becoming an American is cheap and easy and nearly everyone can do so easily, just fill out a few forms!)

What would the average American think about immigration if they really knew all the facts and were able to review the issue with intellectual vigor?
If they come over here to suck up social services and bring all of their relatives from the mother country, they might just as well be "illegal".
 
Old 09-12-2010, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,896 posts, read 5,866,353 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Welcome to the world of stereotypes. Due to unabated Hispanic illegal immigration, coupled with the deliberate conflation of legal and illegal, you are now beginning to experience what I, as a black woman, have endured for years.

You must learn, as I have, to understand the dynamics of stereotype formation. Your dilemma will continue as long as our country is plagued by millions of Hispanic illegal aliens. Likewise, as long as images of ignorant rappers, booty/breast-shaking women, Ebonics-speaking, uncouth blacks are plentiful, I will continue to be prejudged. That’s just the way it is.

Even some Hispanics admit they are now questioning the legality of other Hispanics. Right or wrong, it’s simply human nature. Look at the bright side -- if we resolve our illegal immigration problem, you will be free from suspicion. Perhaps your “bitterness” should be directed toward illegal immigration, rather than your country.
Would you be my new BBF ? A great post, very insightful. It made me stop and think a bit. I like that. I do that occasionally.
 
Old 09-12-2010, 03:30 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,999 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
The rub of course is that these chldren are ours. We let them stay and their parents earn a living. Many of these children have never live anywhere else in their memory .

So what we are proposing to do is send them off to a foreign country where they have no roots or experience.

We also have a substantial investment in these children. It costs a bundle to educate a child through high school. As a general note people pay more in to the society when they complete education above high school. High school is about the break even point. So we can expect these children to be neutral or better in their economic dealings with the society.

We have no legal committment to these kids...but we do have a moral one.
We have no moral obligation to law breakers and their children.

Your whole premise seems to be that if ten million people break the law then the law should be abolished. I disagree with you. Our immigration laws should exist to make America a better place for Americans. Our laws most certainly should be written with the welfare of Mexicans in mind at every turn.

Ultimately this is not Mexico. Mexicans need to go home and stay home. If they breed up too many children it is not our responsibility to find jobs for them. If they don't like our laws on immigration well that's just too darned bad. The United States has no obligation to low skilled, badly educated, non-English speaking lawbreakers who treat this country as if our laws were optional.

I am sorry you feel otherwise. I am equally sorry your comments in this thread have ignored and downplayed the tremendous social costs imposed on Americans by Mexican nationals.
 
Old 09-12-2010, 03:32 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,498,817 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnieA View Post
My children have a legal and moral commitment to their children and they struggle to fullfill their commitments, with precious little left over.

As for a foriegn country with no roots....come on.....

What about we do something about the inner city kids that are not getting educated, drop out of school, go on welfare and/or drugs ? Why dont we use that money for those children. There is only so much to go around. This country is not a bottomless pit of money, witness the national debt....again, in my mind, the arguments that people put forth in this vein are without merit and serves their pro illegal agenda.
That is where you folk lose all your credibility. I have no particular agenda for the illegals. I have a very practical one in that I think you people are trying to do a completely impossible task that will likely make things worse...but I certainly would be of the view that the present illegals should absolutely not have been allowed to establish their colony in the US and the governments of the late 80s and early 90s should be held responsbile. Thing about it and we may never want another Republican administration. How could they be so utterly irresponsible and careless...I would bar them forever from running the country.

I would also opine that we have a moral obligation to the children of the illegals. We allowed the parents to come here and the children to be raised here...now that they are grown we tell them they must leave.

I disagree. I think we owe them a fair shake at citizenship. Not legally but morally.

I am also not sure how this gets to be a money issue. It is the right of the children to stay and perhaps be treated the same as the children of any other taxpayer. We don't require citizenship to pay taxes by the way. Only residence.
 
Old 09-12-2010, 03:48 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,999 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
That is where you folk lose all your credibility. I have no particular agenda for the illegals. I have a very practical one in that I think you people are trying to do a completely impossible task that will likely make things worse...but I certainly would be of the view that the present illegals should absolutely not have been allowed to establish their colony in the US and the governments of the late 80s and early 90s should be held responsbile. Thing about it and we may never want another Republican administration. How could they be so utterly irresponsible and careless...I would bar them forever from running the country.

I would also opine that we have a moral obligation to the children of the illegals. We allowed the parents to come here and the children to be raised here...now that they are grown we tell them they must leave.

I disagree. I think we owe them a fair shake at citizenship. Not legally but morally.

I am also not sure how this gets to be a money issue. It is the right of the children to stay and perhaps be treated the same as the children of any other taxpayer. We don't require citizenship to pay taxes by the way. Only residence.
There's no we in the bolded sentence. We didn't do anything. They ignored our immigration laws. They now want to be rewarded for doing so with legal status.

Never.

We already allow many Mexicans into the United States legally. We have no obligation to allow every single Mexican into the United States just because said Mexican wants to come here even though they may completely lack any sort of qualifications that would allow them to fit in here without huge subsidies by the American taxpayer.

Enough already with the we owe illegal migrants things nonsense. Every thing we grant to illegal migrants is an insult to anyone who ever bothered to follow our laws and legally immgrate. What Mexicans want (and let's face it, we're writing largely about Mexicans here) is one law for them and one law for everyone else.

I reiterate: never. They have their own country. It isn't particularly poor. If they want better conditions let them lobby for such in their own country rather than coming here and putting enormous stress on the American taxpayer.

That's the only moral thing to do.
 
Old 09-12-2010, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,896 posts, read 5,866,353 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaDominadora View Post
Yours is a story pretty much all African-Americans can relate to. I come from a long line of physicians and war veterans and am myself a government employee who speaks the King's English but all society can see is "welfare queen". The same with the Muslim community. Every Muslim and/or Middle Easterner is seen as a terrorist or extremist radical.
Yeah it's hard being judged as a group and having to take the blame every time another black person f-cks up. Wasn't too long ago when entire African American cities were burned to the ground when one black man was accused of rape.

This behavior is nothing new in the States. I stopped letting it get to me and even sometimes have found humor in the "stereotypes."
As Benicar said in an earlier post, she thought she was going to spend an evening with "rednecks" and it didnt happen. I am tired of being stereotyped as an ignorant Southerner with lynching on my mind just because I was born and raised in the South.....this is still the greatest country in the world to live in for freedom, otherwise, why is everyone trying to get here ? I would be and, am, thankful and grateful that I am in this country and not somewhere in the middle East under Shiria law or in Rawanda or Angola being butchered and my children turned into child soldiers with thier sad, empty eyes (that breaks my heart). I thank God everyday that I am born into a land of freedoms.....

Last edited by AnnieA; 09-12-2010 at 03:58 PM..
 
Old 09-12-2010, 04:13 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,383,737 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Silliness. Right would have jumped all over him for increasing the deficit. Much of the right understands there is only one issue in this election - the economy. This mornings Review Journal in Las Vegas has a poll showing that the economy is listed by 72% of the electorate as the big issue. Immigration is in third with 5%.

That is one of the things you folks miss. Immigration is simply not a big issue.
If O had spent money on deportation it would have been an investment in our future. Now, it's water under the turtle bridge. You are correct in saying the economy is number 1. And we won't be trusting democrats to fix it. Republicans realize the need to address immigration as seen in 20 or more states waiting to file laws like Arizonas. It IS ALSO part of fixing the economy. Republicans have the ability to think long term. FIXING the problem is a financial solution. Guess we can satisfy the 72% and the 5% at the same time. That is, of course, right after we defund the ill advised health care monstrosity that does nothing to contain costs.

Maybe one thing your folks miss is that illegal immigration IS a big, expensive issue.
 
Old 09-12-2010, 04:24 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,498,817 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
If O had spent money on deportation it would have been an investment in our future. Now, it's water under the turtle bridge. You are correct in saying the economy is number 1. And we won't be trusting democrats to fix it. Republicans realize the need to address immigration as seen in 20 or more states waiting to file laws like Arizonas. It IS ALSO part of fixing the economy. Republicans have the ability to think long term. FIXING the problem is a financial solution. Guess we can satisfy the 72% and the 5% at the same time. That is, of course, right after we defund the ill advised health care monstrosity that does nothing to contain costs.

Maybe one thing your folks miss is that illegal immigration IS a big, expensive issue.
And apparently you forget that the immigration crisis was basically brought about by the failure of two Republican Administrations to properly deal with it.

I would think after that screwup the last people you would call on to fix immigration would be the Republicans. They gots us here.

The Republicans liked those low paid workers in their factories. It is only after they screwed it up royally that they are going to fix it. If you believe that I got a bridge you would be interested in..
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