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Old 09-17-2010, 05:38 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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"If the children of illegal immigrants are able to obtain what 70% of the general population is unable to obtain, that merits something"

Link, please.

 
Old 09-17-2010, 05:46 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladysovereign View Post
You're the last person who should be telling someone else that they're coming off "this ridiculous". Your bleeding heart liberalism and continual obsession with having everyone be entitled to go to College is beyond ridiculous.

Also this supposed "merit" that you think is achieved by sending Illegal Immigrant's Children (offspring of people who committed a crime to come to the U.S. illegally) to College on the Taxpayer's dime is highly specious. I guess as long as your not personally footing the bill, then it's okay to overtax the people to make everyone a Doctor, Teacher or Engineer, etc. And then what happens when those vocational fields become low paying as they have become over saturated with too many over-trained and over educated individuals. I guess then we'll all have to get PHD's to be able to compete with one another in the work place. Your logic is ridiculous and a very naive way of thinking!
No, not a "liberal" but a moderate. Socially liberal, fiscally moderate. Since when did liberal become a bad term? In all honesty, its pretty ridiculous that your idea of an insult is to call a person a liberal.

I just don't like perpetuating a concentration of wealth that inevitably hurts society.

What's beyond ridiculous is the fact that you aren't outraged that college is something that mostly the upper middle and upper classes obtain. It's beyond the reach of the deserving poor. I mean, hell, even to just apply costs a hundred per application.

A person who strives to contribute to the society where they live shouldn't be persecuted for things they didn't have any control over. Secondly, they should be rewarded for trying to aid the society they live in.

Yes, because there are going to be that many people going to college. In places where college is cheap (most European nations) the college going rate isn't universal. There are still people who can't muster college academically. There are still programs that people want to go into that are vocational. Some people want to mechanics or beauty salon owners, etc.

Making college expensive is a surefire way to ensure existing disparities in society and reduce our ability to compete on the international stage.

My logic is ridiculous? Says the person that believes college should be expensive in order to keep numbers low as a means to aid the economy....
 
Old 09-17-2010, 05:47 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
"If the children of illegal immigrants are able to obtain what 70% of the general population is unable to obtain, that merits something"

Link, please.
The college attainment rate is about 30%. That means that 70% of AMERICANS don't have a college degree. It's in the census. If an illegal obtains a bachelors that means that they obtained something that 70% of Americans don't have.
 
Old 09-17-2010, 05:49 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladysovereign View Post
They seem to be good at that and spin everything into how helping Illegals will make the world, no matter at what cost, a better place. Ridiculous!
The true def. of spin is when you extrapolate one point and not understand any other points. You don't know what my views are on other things. Don't act as if you do.
 
Old 09-17-2010, 06:23 PM
 
660 posts, read 1,188,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
No, not a "liberal" but a moderate. Socially liberal, fiscally moderate. Since when did liberal become a bad term? In all honesty, its pretty ridiculous that your idea of an insult is to call a person a liberal.
In my opinion, being a Liberal is a bad thing.

(snip)
Quote:
What's beyond ridiculous is the fact that you aren't outraged that college is something that mostly the upper middle and upper classes obtain. It's beyond the reach of the deserving poor. I mean, hell, even to just apply costs a hundred per application.
I guess you never heard of Community College or attending a non-Ivy League University. I am from a poor family who's parents came to this country legally. I worked to put myself through college and never asked for a financial handout as I believed if I could find a way to pay for it, I would. Many of my social circle in College also came from poor families who found a way to pay for their education without complaints of "unfairness".

You really need to get out and explore the world more beyond your little social circle before you make such illogical statements.

Quote:
A person who strives to contribute to the society where they live shouldn't be persecuted for things they didn't have any control over. Secondly, they should be rewarded for trying to aid the society they live in.
Why do you always insert some agenda into every post that doesn't have anything to do with the subject?

Quote:
Yes, because there are going to be that many people going to college. In places where college is cheap (most European nations) the college going rate isn't universal. There are still people who can't muster college academically. There are still programs that people want to go into that are vocational. Some people want to mechanics or beauty salon owners, etc.

Making college expensive is a surefire way to ensure existing disparities in society and reduce our ability to compete on the international stage.

My logic is ridiculous? Says the person that believes college should be expensive in order to keep numbers low as a means to aid the economy....
And yet, you still don't get the point that Taxpayer money is going to support children of people who committed a crime by entering this country illegally. And twisting my words around to say that I believe "college should be expensive...." is not what I wrote. Keep spouting your personal agenda that College should be cheap and free for everyone as I disagree and I'm done.
 
Old 09-17-2010, 06:26 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
The college attainment rate is about 30%. That means that 70% of AMERICANS don't have a college degree. It's in the census. If an illegal obtains a bachelors that means that they obtained something that 70% of Americans don't have.
Even if that were so that means that 30% of Americans have a college degree and out of 12-20 million illegals only a small number are seeking or have a college degree. I am basing my claims on below since most illegals are Hispanics.

Education
  • Hispanics drop out of high school at three times the white rate and twice the black rate.
  • Even third-generation Hispanics drop out of school at a higher rate than blacks and are less likely to be college graduates.
  • From 1992 to 2003, Hispanic illiteracy in English rose from 35 percent to 44 percent.
  • The average Hispanic 12th-grader reads and does math at the level of the average white 8th-grader.
 
Old 09-17-2010, 06:30 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladysovereign View Post
In my opinion, being a Liberal is a bad thing.

(snip)
I guess you never heard of Community College or attending a non-Ivy League University. I am from a poor family who's parents came to this country legally. I worked to put myself through college and never asked for a financial handout as I believed if I could find a way to pay for it, I would. Many of my social circle in College also came from poor families who found a way to pay for their education without complaints of "unfairness".

You really need to get out and explore the world more beyond your little social circle before you make such illogical statements.

Why do you always insert some agenda into every post that doesn't have anything to do with the subject?

And yet, you still don't get the point that Taxpayer money is going to support children of people who committed a crime by entering this country illegally. And twisting my words around to say that I believe "college should be expensive...." is not what I wrote. Keep spouting your personal agenda that College should be cheap and free for everyone as I disagree and I'm done.
He also claimed that I said we should "close" our southern border and I never said that. I said secure both borders as much as possible and only allow entry through legal ports of entry.

I agree that college should be a lot more affordable for AMERICANS but no way should we be paying for the college education of illegal aliens. If it were more affordable for Americans more would attend.
 
Old 09-17-2010, 06:37 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladysovereign View Post
In my opinion, being a Liberal is a bad thing.

(snip)
I guess you never heard of Community College or attending a non-Ivy League University. I am from a poor family who's parents came to this country legally. I worked to put myself through college and never asked for a financial handout as I believed if I could find a way to pay for it, I would. Many of my social circle in College also came from poor families who found a way to pay for their education without complaints of "unfairness".

You really need to get out and explore the world more beyond your little social circle before you make such illogical statements.

Why do you always insert some agenda into every post that doesn't have anything to do with the subject?

And yet, you still don't get the point that Taxpayer money is going to support children of people who committed a crime by entering this country illegally. And twisting my words around to say that I believe "college should be expensive...." is not what I wrote. Keep spouting your personal agenda that College should be cheap and free for everyone as I disagree and I'm done.
1) Then you're an idiot. If you think that being slightly left is bad. You're an idiot. Point blank. There are many policies that you benefit because of liberal ideals. Democracy being most notable. The term liberal came out the same era of our founding fathers. They were the liberals of their day.

2) You're a bigger idiot than I thought. Community college doesn't hand out four year degrees. And you still are on the hook for tens of thousands of dollars to complete your bachelors. The cost of college has risen WAY faster than inflation and the cost of living (3 times faster). The arguments of "I paid my way..." are getting rarer and rarer since it it's more and more expensive. This recession isn't helping families. For example I paid $10,000 less for my degree than a person who will graduate 3 years after me. It's absurd.

3) I'm not the one arguing that college is attainable contrary to what nearly everyone agrees. Yes, people on the right even concede that college is too expensive. Educational attainment is not a partisan issue.

4) You brought up the whole argument. I simply stated that education is a right and college shouldn't be that unattainable.

5) You're words were essentially that. Not verbatim, but you argued that having more degrees saturates the market. This was when you argued that college shouldn't be made more attainable.

I think you're the last person to talk about logic.
 
Old 09-17-2010, 06:39 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
He also claimed that I said we should "close" our southern border and I never said that. I said secure both borders as much as possible and only allow entry through legal ports of entry.

I agree that college should be a lot more affordable for AMERICANS but no way should we be paying for the college education of illegal aliens. If it were more affordable for Americans more would attend.
Maybe it was another poster, but didn't you advocate full militarization of the southern border at one point? I think I read it when doing a search of your old posts.
 
Old 09-17-2010, 06:41 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Even if that were so that means that 30% of Americans have a college degree and out of 12-20 million illegals only a small number are seeking or have a college degree. I am basing my claims on below since most illegals are Hispanics.

Education
  • Hispanics drop out of high school at three times the white rate and twice the black rate.
  • Even third-generation Hispanics drop out of school at a higher rate than blacks and are less likely to be college graduates.
  • From 1992 to 2003, Hispanic illiteracy in English rose from 35 percent to 44 percent.
  • The average Hispanic 12th-grader reads and does math at the level of the average white 8th-grader.
So we should try to rectify the situation. The disparity should then tried to be diminished, not heightened.
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