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Old 09-10-2010, 10:45 AM
 
1,891 posts, read 2,179,360 times
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Isn't the state broke? How are they getting money for aid?

 
Old 09-10-2010, 10:51 AM
 
344 posts, read 153,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lariat View Post
Isn't the state broke? How are they getting money for aid?
If we have a lower educated population, tax revenue will plummet. Ironically, several UC schools came up with that conclusion. So fostering more education is crucial.

Maybe you can have some sort of contingency. So if they don't enter into certain fields (teaching, social work, medicine) then the money must be repaid (they have that for those entering into social work). So illegal immigrants who want to go to school can either opt to be legal or must be teachers in inner city schools as a service for providing reduced tuition.
 
Old 09-10-2010, 11:08 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,044,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
I live in SoCal...I do. I went to a UC school. Cali (California) Freeman (my last name).
Then you must have been out of school for a while to not know the cheapest venues for kids now have been capped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
Out of state is about 40-50k. That's ridiculous for anyone. We need to get the price of college under control. I'm 60k in debt from instate tuition. It's ultimately against the tax payer to be so short sighted. We're seeing this now.
School is expensive and it is not a right. There is always the JCs. School is a privilege and not to be had by demands.

Tax payers are fed up with this list of "demands" the Illegals have here and this includes the "Dreamies".

There are fine Colleges in Mexico too. Here's the advice my Dad told me when I asked him about College. GET A JOB!
 
Old 09-10-2010, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
We benefit from people to college. What's bankrupting the K-12 isn't 8% of school aged children. Mexican illegal dropout rates vary according of age of entry (typically the younger the age of entry to US, the lower the rate). It ranges from about the national average to about 50%. Still this provides a good argument to why you should make college accessible. We know, based on studies of inner city schools, that having teachers come from similar backgrounds decreases dropout in the school.

There is a problem with educational attainment with the majority of illegal immigrant populations. 57% of foreign born Latino immigrants have a high school diploma or equiv. 10% of foreign born Hispanics graduated from college. Typically stats for Hispanic illegal immigrants follow the same trends as for other foreign born Hispanics.

On a side note, it is a shame that there is little data on the other 25% of illegal immigrants.

I digress. However, the UC is also pushing for less instate undergraduates. Really, the public education sector needs to be held accountable. By eliminating out of state entirely, it will make systems like the UC (which had a number of highly risky investments during the real estate boom) accountable for how it invests its funding source (students and tax payer money). Seeing how most out of state/foreign students remain in state after college, it kind of makes sense. The biggest return on investment is to have a larger educated population. That's exactly why we have public universities. So why make it harder to attain such a goal?
Yes, we benefit from an educated populace. However, we are not obligated to provide a tax-funded college education for people who are here illegally. Nor should they be included in our future plans. We donít need them.

You mention 8% as though itís a drop in the bucket. Eight percent of BILLIONS is a staggering amount to squander. Iím sick of this nonsense. Furthermore, why should we care whether college is accessible to illegals? The last time I checked, they have many colleges in Mexico and other countries. Some are even free for citizens.

The dropout rate for the children of illegal aliens, foreign and U.S.-born, is off the charts. We already have enough high school dropouts among citizens, why on earth should we want more?

Quote:
Hispanics have a much higher high school drop-out rate than do blacks or whites. Some 41% of Hispanic adults age 20 and older in the United States do not have a regular high school diploma
Pew Hispanic Center

Quote:
Hispanics have one of the highest dropout rates in Texas. According to the San Antonio-based Intercultural Development Research Association, or IDRA as it is commonly called, that figure is about 45 percent.
Editorial: Stunning dropout rate should concern Texans (http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/editorials/Editorial_Stunning_dropout_rate_should_concern_Tex ans.html - broken link)

Quote:
In Trenton Central High School in New Jersey, the dropout rate among Hispanic students is three times the state average. This is probably due to a lack of proficiency in the English language, as well as a typically lower socio-economic status among Hispanic families. Also, many students drop out of high school to work or to have families, as the average birth rate among teenage Hispanics is higher than any other ethnic group. This high drop out rate reflects poorly upon the school system and can cost the system a great deal of money.

Further, when schools are faced with a non-English speaking population, they must find teachers who are bilingual to teach students enough English so that they can operate under normal academic conditions. Unfortunately, many of these students, upon return from various ESL (English as a Second Language) programs, are still unable to understand the advanced language in textbooks and other materials; nor are they necessarily qualified to write at the same level as English-speaking students.
Education & Illegal Immigrants ę The Vanderbilt Torch

Quote:
With a 58 percent dropout rate, Jefferson has the worst dropout record in the Los Angeles Unified School District, the nationís second-largest.

A quarter-century ago, Latino students totaled 31 percent of the student body; now they account for almost 90 percent.
Hispanic-dominated L.A. school grapples with worst dropout rate and gang problems ę Immigration Watch International
 
Old 09-10-2010, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,948,309 times
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Hopefully SB1460 will get the same response from the governor as previous "dream act bills" that were passed in Ca...........He has 30 days to veto it.

Quote:
Veto Message:

To the Members of the California State Senate:

I am returning Senate Bill 1301 without my signature.

I share the author's goal of making affordable education available to all California students, but given the precarious fiscal condition the state faces at this time, it would not be prudent to place additional demands on our limited financial aid resources as specified in this bill.


For this reason, I am unable to sign this bill.

Sincerely,
Arnold Schwarzenegger

http://dist22.casen.govoffice.com/index.asp?Type=B_PR&SEC={618F8B21-E3F2-436F-AD33-4F47062FA1BD}
Unfortunately on a federal level it's rumoured in the spanish media that Harry Reid is going to push for the Dream Act to be debated in September.
 
Old 09-10-2010, 04:21 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,044,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
Hopefully SB1460 will get the same response from the governor as previous "dream act bills" that were passed in Ca...........He has 30 days to veto it.



Unfortunately on a federal level it's rumoured in the spanish media that Harry Reid is going to push for the Dream Act to be debated in September.
Hopefully, it has the same fate as open carry last week!!


Just argue and let it pass without a vote.
 
Old 09-10-2010, 05:29 PM
 
344 posts, read 153,040 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Then you must have been out of school for a while to not know the cheapest venues for kids now have been capped.



School is expensive and it is not a right. There is always the JCs. School is a privilege and not to be had by demands.

Tax payers are fed up with this list of "demands" the Illegals have here and this includes the "Dreamies".

There are fine Colleges in Mexico too. Here's the advice my Dad told me when I asked him about College. GET A JOB!
I'm 24. I graduated in 2008. Education isn't a privilege it is a right. It's actually one of the human rights established by the US and UN.

Why outsource college students? What economic incentive does that provide? Having a more educated population is what made CA great. On the contrary, if illegals want an education...that's better for the general population.

You dad had bad advice. In our service based economy the only way to even a mid level (even some entry level jobs) is to have a degree. There is a direct correlation between income and college attainment.

Again its shortsighted to not think of education (in general) as a long term investment.
 
Old 09-10-2010, 05:38 PM
 
344 posts, read 153,040 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Yes, we benefit from an educated populace. However, we are not obligated to provide a tax-funded college education for people who are here illegally. Nor should they be included in our future plans. We donít need them.

You mention 8% as though itís a drop in the bucket. Eight percent of BILLIONS is a staggering amount to squander. Iím sick of this nonsense. Furthermore, why should we care whether college is accessible to illegals? The last time I checked, they have many colleges in Mexico and other countries. Some are even free for citizens.

The dropout rate for the children of illegal aliens, foreign and U.S.-born, is off the charts. We already have enough high school dropouts among citizens, why on earth should we want more?


Pew Hispanic Center


Editorial: Stunning dropout rate should concern Texans (http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/editorials/Editorial_Stunning_dropout_rate_should_concern_Tex ans.html - broken link)


Education & Illegal Immigrants ę The Vanderbilt Torch


Hispanic-dominated L.A. school grapples with worst dropout rate and gang problems ę Immigration Watch International
With that said, our defense spending is $1 trillion. Our deficit because of Bush era tax cuts is hundreds of billions (somewhere around $700 billion). Funds like race to the top could actually help bolster the difference if we decrease spending and not reinstate Bush's tax cuts.

Again it costs MORE money to not encourage college education than to encourage education. Encouraging programs to help the community whence you gain is something that has been proven to work. So if you have a few people go to college in a community, you can see more people of the same community go to college. However, if you don't encourage that, you have the status quo.

You complain of illegal immigrants draining the system. The most cost effective and ultimately most sensible measure is to improve educational attainment.

Again, why outsource college students? We already are seeing a brain drain in California. College educated people are leaving the state. More people are leaving America than ever before.

With a high dropout rate its even more of an imperative to educate people.
 
Old 09-10-2010, 05:57 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
With that said, our defense spending is $1 trillion. Our deficit because of Bush era tax cuts is hundreds of billions (somewhere around $700 billion). Funds like race to the top could actually help bolster the difference if we decrease spending and not reinstate Bush's tax cuts.

Again it costs MORE money to not encourage college education than to encourage education. Encouraging programs to help the community whence you gain is something that has been proven to work. So if you have a few people go to college in a community, you can see more people of the same community go to college. However, if you don't encourage that, you have the status quo.

You complain of illegal immigrants draining the system. The most cost effective and ultimately most sensible measure is to improve educational attainment.

Again, why outsource college students? We already are seeing a brain drain in California. College educated people are leaving the state. More people are leaving America than ever before.

With a high dropout rate its even more of an imperative to educate people.
We can create more incentives for our own to go to college. We aren't lacking in citizens with the capability of learning and going to college. We should under no circumstances or excuses be paying for the education of illegal aliens. We sure don't need them competing for our white collar jobs after they graduate from college either since outsourcing is already a problem.

Many Californians are leaving (commonly called white flight) because it is directly due to the fiscal problems we have in this state and the numbers of jobs that have been lost both through outsourcing, illegal alien labor and our overcrowded conditions everywhere directly due to illegal immigration.

Many citizens are leaving the U.S. though? Where did you come up with that one?
 
Old 09-10-2010, 06:05 PM
 
344 posts, read 153,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
We can create more incentives for our own to go to college. We aren't lacking in citizens with the capability of learning and going to college. We should under no circumstances or excuses be paying for the education of illegal aliens. We sure don't need them competing for our white collar jobs after they graduate from college either since outsourcing is already a problem.

Many Californians are leaving (commonly called white flight) because it is directly due to the fiscal problems we have in this state and the numbers of jobs that have been lost both through outsourcing, illegal alien labor and our overcrowded conditions everywhere directly due to illegal immigration.

Many citizens are leaving the U.S. though? Where did you come up with that one?
1) That's true. So why not expand those options to the poorest segment of people already here? If they are causing a net drain, it makes more sense to have them become part of the middle class and pay more taxes. Not to mention that there is a shortage of people who want to commit to teaching in inner city schools. Why not extend programs to illegal immigrants who may be more willing to work in inner city schools. We already see the turnover rate from the inner city for better suburban schools.

2) No it's not called white flight. It's more of a brain drain. Since this includes Asians, Blacks, and Hispanics in a higher percentage. It's not directly due to fiscal problems of the state. It's more due to high housing costs and lower purchasing power.

3) Immigration to Korea is up. Immigration to China is up. Immigration to India is up. It's not only ethnic Koreans, Chinese, and Indians. Many young Americans are teaching English abroad. Our world is increasingly global and those economies are pretty hot. I know 5 people in Korea from California. I'm moving soon to teach.
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