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Old 09-10-2010, 07:14 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,195,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
1) That's true. So why not expand those options to the poorest segment of people already here? If they are causing a net drain, it makes more sense to have them become part of the middle class and pay more taxes. Not to mention that there is a shortage of people who want to commit to teaching in inner city schools. Why not extend programs to illegal immigrants who may be more willing to work in inner city schools. We already see the turnover rate from the inner city for better suburban schools.

2) No it's not called white flight. It's more of a brain drain. Since this includes Asians, Blacks, and Hispanics in a higher percentage. It's not directly due to fiscal problems of the state. It's more due to high housing costs and lower purchasing power.

3) Immigration to Korea is up. Immigration to China is up. Immigration to India is up. It's not only ethnic Koreans, Chinese, and Indians. Many young Americans are teaching English abroad. Our world is increasingly global and those economies are pretty hot. I know 5 people in Korea from California. I'm moving soon to teach.
1. Because they are here illegally and our laws demand deportation. We need those funds to educate our own. As I said, we have no shortage of Americans with brains to go to college themselves and we certainly don't need the competition for jobs by making illegals, legal.

2. And the source for your assertions is?

3. I really don't care what other countries are doing. We already have the highest quotas for LEGAL immigration in the world right here. What does globalization have to do with uncontrolled illegal immigration and our right to enforce our immigration laws?

 
Old 09-10-2010, 07:34 PM
 
Location: San Diego
33,003 posts, read 30,280,395 times
Reputation: 17817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
I'm 24. I graduated in 2008. Education isn't a privilege it is a right. It's actually one of the human rights established by the US and UN.

Why outsource college students? What economic incentive does that provide? Having a more educated population is what made CA great. On the contrary, if illegals want an education...that's better for the general population.

You dad had bad advice. In our service based economy the only way to even a mid level (even some entry level jobs) is to have a degree. There is a direct correlation between income and college attainment.

Again its shortsighted to not think of education (in general) as a long term investment.
k-12 is a right, a College level education is not. Let's get that straight right now.

Here is another news segment, a College education doesn't guarantee you riches. I know so many people that did nothing with their diploma but have a bunch of kids. What's wrong with the Colleges in Mexico?
 
Old 09-10-2010, 07:36 PM
 
344 posts, read 154,120 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
1. Because they are here illegally and our laws demand deportation. We need those funds to educate our own. As I said, we have no shortage of Americans with brains to go to college themselves and we certainly don't need the competition for jobs by making illegals, legal.

2. And the source for your assertions is?

3. I really don't care what other countries are doing. We already have the highest quotas for LEGAL immigration in the world right here. What does globalization have to do with uncontrolled illegal immigration and our right to enforce our immigration laws?
1) The laws will bankrupt the US as is. Simply put. It's better to invest more to decrease the those on welfare and increase tax revenue than to invest on deportation. As for "we need to educate our future" we would. Actually more so than now. Competition would not stem from those already here. If anything an increased labor pool of qualified candidates is better than a permanent underclass.

2) The census.

3) More AMERICANS are leaving abroad. Re-read the paragraph again. I don't think you read it right.

It's pretty simply the billions that could be used to deport people already in labor pool could be used to fund their education and their children's education. That we could decrease welfare and increase tax revenue. Competition due to illegal immigration is not going to affect the market.
 
Old 09-10-2010, 07:41 PM
 
Location: San Diego
33,003 posts, read 30,280,395 times
Reputation: 17817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
1) The laws will bankrupt the US as is. Simply put. It's better to invest more to decrease the those on welfare and increase tax revenue than to invest on deportation. As for "we need to educate our future" we would. Actually more so than now. Competition would not stem from those already here. If anything an increased labor pool of qualified candidates is better than a permanent underclass.

2) The census.

3) More AMERICANS are leaving abroad. Re-read the paragraph again. I don't think you read it right.

It's pretty simply the billions that could be used to deport people already in labor pool could be used to fund their education and their children's education. That we could decrease welfare and increase tax revenue. Competition due to illegal immigration is not going to affect the market.
As was the 1986 amnesty, any money or incentives tossed at illlegals will simply increase illegal immigration. Please tell us how that is a positive thing?
 
Old 09-10-2010, 07:53 PM
 
344 posts, read 154,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
As was the 1986 amnesty, any money or incentives tossed at illlegals will simply increase illegal immigration. Please tell us how that is a positive thing?
Non-sequiter. We're not talking about amnesty. And not to mention your point has a giant flaw. Illegal immigration fell, even after Bush was tossing around the idea of amnesty (which people at the time said will increase illegal immigration...people went on to comment that even bringing up the idea will fuel illegal immigration). Also there wasn't a huge jump until after the 1990s
(a decade later).
 
Old 09-10-2010, 10:11 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,195,062 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
1) The laws will bankrupt the US as is. Simply put. It's better to invest more to decrease the those on welfare and increase tax revenue than to invest on deportation. As for "we need to educate our future" we would. Actually more so than now. Competition would not stem from those already here. If anything an increased labor pool of qualified candidates is better than a permanent underclass.

2) The census.

3) More AMERICANS are leaving abroad. Re-read the paragraph again. I don't think you read it right.

It's pretty simply the billions that could be used to deport people already in labor pool could be used to fund their education and their children's education. That we could decrease welfare and increase tax revenue. Competition due to illegal immigration is not going to affect the market.
1. Freeing up jobs taken by illegals with get our own off of welfare and in turn they will be paying taxes. Keeping additional people here doesn't create job competition?

2. The census tells you this?

"No it's not called white flight. It's more of a brain drain. Since this includes Asians, Blacks, and Hispanics in a higher percentage. It's not directly due to fiscal problems of the state. It's more due to high housing costs and lower purchasing power".

3. If more Americans are living abroad it is probably because our jobs have left the country. There are no costs associated with voluntary deportations with all the magnets and incentives removed to stay here or to continue to come here. The taxes we will save by their departure rather than providing them with an education and the other associated social costs can be spent on our citizens. As I said, we can take our own off of welfare and they in turn will have jobs and be paying taxes.
 
Old 09-10-2010, 10:48 PM
 
344 posts, read 154,120 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
1. Freeing up jobs taken by illegals with get our own off of welfare and in turn they will be paying taxes. Keeping additional people here doesn't create job competition?

2. The census tells you this?

"No it's not called white flight. It's more of a brain drain. Since this includes Asians, Blacks, and Hispanics in a higher percentage. It's not directly due to fiscal problems of the state. It's more due to high housing costs and lower purchasing power".

3. If more Americans are living abroad it is probably because our jobs have left the country. There are no costs associated with voluntary deportations with all the magnets and incentives removed to stay here or to continue to come here. The taxes we will save by their departure rather than providing them with an education and the other associated social costs can be spent on our citizens. As I said, we can take our own off of welfare and they in turn will have jobs and be paying taxes.
1) Let it walk you through it. If you reduce the number of people in a certain area, you aren't freeing up jobs. You increase the costs of businesses and reduce profits. You now have increasing hiring costs (training, lowered efficiency) and other businesses have lower profits (less people that buy profits). So you really kill communities. There are many examples of that. When you pull productive people out of the economy there is a net loss. Always. Increasing education increases efficiency. Thus education is always net positive. A more educated workforce is usually more efficient (because they are more knowledgeable).

With illegal immigrants, they comprise 4% of the total population roughly. There really wouldn't be a whole lot of increased competition. Assuming that the college going rate is at the US average of a little over 25%...your looking at a little over .5% of the total workforce. That's not enough to really increase competition significantly. Not to mention that since we are a capitalist society, our economic system is based on having more people (more people means more money). That's why Europe and Japan are facing a demographic disaster. They're losing people...that's making them less competitive and businesses are looking at other markets (since loss of people means loss of profits). Remember, capitalism only works because of constant expansion.

2) Yes. To be completely fair it's from the census via SFGate, Press Enterprise, NBC, etc. You can Google it. California is loosing people mostly due to the high cost of living. Thus, middle income college graduates feel that they can get more bang for their buck in other states or nations.

3) It's mostly due to rising economies of China and India. Remember how I stated more people equal more profits. Why is it then not a coincidence that China and India are the two fastest growing economies? They're new markets with large middle income populations. Americans are taking notice. However, we're still a large power. So people need to speak English. That's why there is over 50,000 English teachers in Korea right now.

Taking our own "off welfare" is a good idea. However, not at the expense of creating an underclass. Our system can't sustain the billions that are required for deportation (not including the yearly expense that incurs from it). Providing an education is a guaranteed return on investment. This is never contested by the left or right. You're helping your citizens by investing in education. It's not as if education spending is solely on illegal immigrants and nobody else receives the rewards. No, you have more tax revenue, more profits from more disposable income. Again those benefits aren't disputed from either the right or left when it comes to general education spending.
 
Old 09-10-2010, 10:50 PM
 
344 posts, read 154,120 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
k-12 is a right, a College level education is not. Let's get that straight right now.

Here is another news segment, a College education doesn't guarantee you riches. I know so many people that did nothing with their diploma but have a bunch of kids. What's wrong with the Colleges in Mexico?
I really think that either you're lying or the people you know are the exception. The stats show otherwise. Lower birthrates and high average income is usually correlated with a college education. Most 6 figure income jobs require at least a bachelors degree btw.

Why ship off more college educated people? That doesn't make sense.
 
Old 09-10-2010, 10:53 PM
 
1,162 posts, read 1,551,931 times
Reputation: 1159
Aw heck,

...the graduates can get jobs helping the Mayor of Bell rig the next election!

YEAH BABY!
 
Old 09-11-2010, 02:20 AM
 
Location: San Diego
33,003 posts, read 30,280,395 times
Reputation: 17817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
I really think that either you're lying or the people you know are the exception. The stats show otherwise. Lower birthrates and high average income is usually correlated with a college education. Most 6 figure income jobs require at least a bachelors degree btw.

Why ship off more college educated people? That doesn't make sense.
If you think having a College degree automatically means you make more money then you are lying to yourself. Many kids go to College to avoid how long it takes to actually leave home and get a job.

Dang, I wish I was as sheltered as you. You should feel very lucky.
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