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Old 09-12-2010, 10:16 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,582,217 times
Reputation: 1270

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Quote:
Originally Posted by serrendipity View Post
This is so annoying. My husband has worked since 18 and we've always paid are taxes even while unemployed. As a United States Citizen if myself, my husband, and none of my children will be recieving financial aid it is vastly unfair that illegals get it.

Both of my grandfathers served in World War II, my father was Air Force, and my husband is Air Force. Excuse me but if our overly rich goverment is handing out financial aid I have three boys that will be needing a expensive education and quite frankly as a bonafide american I feel more justified in asking for it.

I'm sick of the United States babying offenders while leaving the tax payers in the cold. I can't imagine waltzing into another country expected all the benefits of the country. Let alone what it says about a country that coddles illegal immigrants and shuns it's actual tax paying citizens. It's just wrong. GRRRR
Annoying is the word to describe seeing all of the things that our federal and state governments are doing to make an illegal stay here in the United States more enjoyable for undocumented people. It is also annoying knowing that people such as yourself and your grandfathers won't have their rights and opportunities upheld and honored. To me, being a United States citizens or legal resident is either a blessing/luck (being born here) or an opportunity (migrating here legally), so I think those statuses should be respected and embraced. Being here legally and knowing that you have opportunities that come with that should be reborn, that feeling of being a true, legal resident. When the governments start handing out opportunity and benefits to people that are illegally here, then what does it mean to be an "American?" What value does any of that have when you start handing out that label so easily? The label of legal resident or "American?" What will be left for those who are legally here and deserving of what was supposed to be their opportunity?

 
Old 09-13-2010, 08:53 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
Reputation: 17687
Quote:
Originally Posted by serrendipity View Post
This is so annoying. My husband has worked since 18 and we've always paid are taxes even while unemployed. As a United States Citizen if myself, my husband, and none of my children will be recieving financial aid it is vastly unfair that illegals get it.

Both of my grandfathers served in World War II, my father was Air Force, and my husband is Air Force. Excuse me but if our overly rich goverment is handing out financial aid I have three boys that will be needing a expensive education and quite frankly as a bonafide american I feel more justified in asking for it.

I'm sick of the United States babying offenders while leaving the tax payers in the cold. I can't imagine waltzing into another country expected all the benefits of the country. Let alone what it says about a country that coddles illegal immigrants and shuns it's actual tax paying citizens. It's just wrong. GRRRR
I think what disturbs me the most is the sense of entitlement that the Illegals and their supporters display. This is not their money nor their Country yet there is the list of demands. I'd rather hand it over at gun point.
 
Old 09-13-2010, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
307 posts, read 326,340 times
Reputation: 350
The extent of financial aid given to these illegals should be bus fare home.
 
Old 09-13-2010, 10:33 AM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Benicar: According to the Harvard Law Review essentially ITINs were issued to unauthorized workers who were ineligible for SSN. Since ITINs have no barring on legality, ITINs have been used for illegal immigrants.

The Taxation of Undocumented Immigrants: Separate, Unequal, and Without Representation (http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/llr/vol9/lipman.php#Heading228 - broken link)
 
Old 09-13-2010, 10:40 AM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You do realize an ITIN is for “legal” non-citizens, and is NOT intended for illegal aliens, don’t you? After all, it IS against the law for illegal aliens to work in this country.

Furthermore, Hispanic organizations do have a vested interest in portraying their ethnicity in the most favorable manner possible. Thus, they aren’t exactly the most credible source for illegal immigration data. I only reference them to prove a point among pro-illegals, since Pew is one of their gospels. However, I always take their data with a grain of salt.

Note illegal alien or the PC “undocumented immigrant” is not included on the following list. If illegals obtain an ITIN, they do so through fraud and deception. But then, what’s new?


General ITIN Information




There is really nothing to discern when dealing with factual data. A hospital has concrete evidence of losses due to unpaid treatment provided to illegal aliens. They may have to estimate only because some illegals may slip through the cracks. However, their losses are cold, hard facts.

Likewise, when a school district spends $15,000 per student, and 40% of the students are “non-citizens,” it’s a simple mathematical computation. Prisons also know the costs per inmate, and it’s simply a matter of multiplication. None of this is rocket science.

However, none of the data is an accurate accounting of the total costs of illegal immigration, because many illegals use fraudulent means to portray themselves as citizens. Thus, the costs are always understated.

Conversely, when an organization such as Pew Hispanic reports costs, they have no firsthand data, they can only rely on the accuracy of the data they receive from other sources. BIG difference.


YouTube - Testimony of illegal alien care from 1 Florida hospital


Dallas hospital cares for illegal immigrants - Nightly News - msnbc.com


Educating illegal immigrants is costly *| ajc.com


U.S. Prison Population Hits All-Time High: 2.3 Million Incarcerated - ABC News
Okay I already the legal precedent with ITINs from Harvard and also from IRS. Their numbers, not mine. As for Hispanic communities paying off professors, that's speculation. Not fact. Again, this is much like your previous argument that we know nothing of this population then cited numbers. You can't play that argument since it easily can go both ways.

Cost of Illegal Immigrants | FactCheck.org

Non-citizens doesn't denote illegal btw. Non-citizens mostly refers to legal residents (as they constitute a MUCH larger percentage of the foreign population). So that's faulty representation on your part, implying that non-citizen automatically refers to illegal residents.

ITINs are not used as a means of establishing legality. ITINs were creating specifically as a means to collect taxes from those who are not eligible for SSN (including illegal immigrants). You do not need to prove legality to obtain an ITIN.
 
Old 09-13-2010, 10:48 AM
 
107 posts, read 126,901 times
Reputation: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoEdible View Post
Annoying is the word to describe seeing all of the things that our federal and state governments are doing to make an illegal stay here in the United States more enjoyable for undocumented people. It is also annoying knowing that people such as yourself and your grandfathers won't have their rights and opportunities upheld and honored. To me, being a United States citizens or legal resident is either a blessing/luck (being born here) or an opportunity (migrating here legally), so I think those statuses should be respected and embraced. Being here legally and knowing that you have opportunities that come with that should be reborn, that feeling of being a true, legal resident. When the governments start handing out opportunity and benefits to people that are illegally here, then what does it mean to be an "American?" What value does any of that have when you start handing out that label so easily? The label of legal resident or "American?" What will be left for those who are legally here and deserving of what was supposed to be their opportunity?

I think your right on; when the benefits of being here illegally supercede those of bonafide citizens and legal immigrants one does wonder what benefits remain for being a american tax payer. Many of the illegal immigrants are out of work to so it's even worse as their just parasatically on the tax payer dime while doing nothing. Meanwhile the good old american middle class works more for less, and that's if their lucky and have a job. Oh, and yes the entitlement bothers the hell out of me.
 
Old 09-13-2010, 10:52 AM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
As for the youtube video, it doesn't illustrate the majority of people. It is an extreme case. You can also make claims of CITIZENS with $1.5 million or more in debt. If anything, it serves to illustrate the fact that more needs to be done to change our current laws of entering into this nation.

Not to mention the costs of education are FAR less than the cost of not educating those people who most likely would remain in our nation.

There are two costs in this narrative. I think you aren't taking into consideration the long term impacts of denying an education. They still will come here (because of the way economics work). They still will have families. Are we willing to simply turn a blind eye to the fact that not providing an education costs CA FAR more than providing an education.

93106: Study: Dropouts Cost State $46.4 B

So essentially I guess you can argue that education costs are higher in the short term, but save the tax payer greatly in the long term.
 
Old 09-13-2010, 10:53 AM
 
344 posts, read 152,933 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by serrendipity View Post
I think your right on; when the benefits of being here illegally supercede those of bonafide citizens and legal immigrants one does wonder what benefits remain for being a american tax payer. Many of the illegal immigrants are out of work to so it's even worse as their just parasatically on the tax payer dime while doing nothing. Meanwhile the good old american middle class works more for less, and that's if their lucky and have a job. Oh, and yes the entitlement bothers the hell out of me.
Wage depression isn't a real thing.
 
Old 09-13-2010, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
Benicar: According to the Harvard Law Review essentially ITINs were issued to unauthorized workers who were ineligible for SSN. Since ITINs have no barring on legality, ITINs have been used for illegal immigrants.

The Taxation of Undocumented Immigrants: Separate, Unequal, and Without Representation (http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/llr/vol9/lipman.php#Heading228 - broken link)
I didn’t say illegals don’t receive ITINs, they clearly do. However, as indicated on the USCIS website, they are not “intended” for use by illegals. Furthermore, illegal aliens are not “supposed” to be working, or “supposed” to be in possession of a SSN, but due to their fraud and deception, they manage to circumvent the law.
 
Old 09-13-2010, 11:24 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
If illegal aliens knew that by bringing their children here they would be denied an education it would be a deterrent to them bringing them here. Even the poorest of the poor want an education for their children. Not many of them would want to come to work here if it meant having to leave their kids in the homeland in order for them to get an education either. We would kill two birds with one stone here by denying an education to illegal alien children.
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