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Old 09-12-2010, 08:49 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,524,913 times
Reputation: 2661

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Who is this we?

Since when does someone from Mexico have special privileges denied to other migrants?
Sorry they live here. YOu may not like it but they do. They are residents They get rights not given to non-residents.

Quote:
Again there is no we. The guy from Senegal did not ignore our laws. If anything the guy from Senegal is a far more desirable person than someone from Mexico.
The kid did not ignore our laws. The guy from Senegal is a nonety. He is not a resident.


Quote:
Again there is no vetting. Just because some Americans acted with compassion does not mean that illegal migrants are entitled to anything further.
Compassion? I hear the compassion rolling off your tongue. They are residents. They are entitile to whatever is appropriate to a resident.


Quote:
There is no we. The American public has repeatedly told Mexicans that they do not want them here. Just because the pols ignore the wishes of most Americans on this issue does not mean that Americans wishes should continue to be ignored.

Why is that so hard for you get to get this? Most Americans don't want illegal migrants here.



They're not residents. They're not legal immigrants. Law breakers are not entitled to a damned thing. Period. You keep down playing people who disobey American laws. You and they are both wrong.
They are residents. They are here. Most of their children are US citizens.

Law breakers are entitled to exactly the same right as non-lawbreakers. Sharron Angle can still run for the Senate.

How can you be an American and know so little about how our legal system works. Did you not notice that the Bill of Rights refers to "persons"? Not "citizens"? That is because we protect everyones rights...not just US citizens.



Quote:
Again what the heck does that have to do with anything? You found one idiot. That does not give every unskilled idiot from Mexico to bring their offspring and come here with the intention of Americans finance their delusions.
Nope. I found an uninformed poster who has no idea how the US system works but thinks it should be done her way. That is not how it works.
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Old 09-13-2010, 08:10 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,388,136 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Sorry they live here. YOu may not like it but they do. They are residents They get rights not given to non-residents.
They live here without permission. That makes them invaders not residents. If I were to move to Mexico and not leave you can be the locals wouldn't see me in such a kindly light.

Quote:
The kid did not ignore our laws. The guy from Senegal is a nonety. He is not a resident.
The parents did. The kid should NOT get a benefit as a result.

Quote:
Compassion? I hear the compassion rolling off your tongue. They are residents. They are entitile to whatever is appropriate to a resident.
Compassion? These people broke our laws. That's like the guy who murders his family then throws himself on the mercy of the court on the grounds that he's now an orphan.

Their decision to stay here without permission has imposed enormous social costs on our society. You can deny it all you want but it's true.

Quote:
They are residents. They are here. Most of their children are US citizens.

Law breakers are entitled to exactly the same right as non-lawbreakers. Sharron Angle can still run for the Senate.
Actually lawbreakers are not entitled to the same rights. In most places if you break the law you suffer the consequences including losing your right to vote and your right to certain employment.

When do they get to face the consequences of their decision to keep breaking the law? Never?

Quote:
How can you be an American and know so little about how our legal system works. Did you not notice that the Bill of Rights refers to "persons"? Not "citizens"? That is because we protect everyones rights...not just US citizens.
You're kidding, right? The bill of rights does not give the right to break our laws and then demand special priviledges. The founding fathers would have gladly thrown them back to Mexico without a single protest from the citizenry.

Quote:
Nope. I found an uninformed poster who has no idea how the US system works but thinks it should be done her way. That is not how it works.
I'm uinformed? You're the person who thinks that you should get priviledges because you break American immigration laws. Have fun financing the poorly educated, non-English speaking low skilled migrants you're so eager to welcome here.

The rest of are not idiots and will not sit by idly by while we are subject to blackmail and demands by immoral lawbreakers.
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:19 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,160,108 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
They live here without permission. That makes them invaders not residents. If I were to move to Mexico and not leave you can be the locals wouldn't see me in such a kindly light.



The parents did. The kid should NOT get a benefit as a result.



Compassion? These people broke our laws. That's like the guy who murders his family then throws himself on the mercy of the court on the grounds that he's now an orphan.

Their decision to stay here without permission has imposed enormous social costs on our society. You can deny it all you want but it's true.



Actually lawbreakers are not entitled to the same rights. In most places if you break the law you suffer the consequences including losing your right to vote and your right to certain employment.

When do they get to face the consequences of their decision to keep breaking the law? Never?



You're kidding, right? The bill of rights does not give the right to break our laws and then demand special priviledges. The founding fathers would have gladly thrown them back to Mexico without a single protest from the citizenry.



I'm uinformed? You're the person who thinks that you should get priviledges because you break American immigration laws. Have fun financing the poorly educated, non-English speaking low skilled migrants you're so eager to welcome here.

The rest of are not idiots and will not sit by idly by while we are subject to blackmail and demands by immoral lawbreakers.
Don't you just love the PC language of the far left? At the very least they should be called "illegal" residents, not just residents. Just like they like to refer to illegal aliens as immigrants. They seek to soften up the fact that their presence here is not within our immigration laws and that they aren't immigrants in the true sense of the word.
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:42 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,388,136 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Don't you just love the PC language of the far left? At the very least they should be called "illegal" residents, not just residents. Just like they like to refer to illegal aliens as immigrants. They seek to soften up the fact that their presence here is not within our immigration laws and that they aren't immigrants in the true sense of the word.
The far left and far right drive me crazy.

The far left loves to play identity politics and lecture us about how we're all a bunch of bigots if we don't believe that it is in our best interests to welcome non-English speaking, low skilled migrants into our communities with welfare and signs in Spanish.

The far right loves docile labor they can treat like slaves.

Either way it's lose-lose for the hardworking middle class. We wind up paying for the left's patronization and hatred of American culture and the right's contempt for the ordinary worker.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,826,194 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
This is strictly a straw man argument. Few of the Dream Act backers oppose the military piece and it will never pass without it. If you want a discussion try the dream act not the silly military piece. Note that it is not very likely to pass with it either...at least in the present enviroment.

I would think the dream act a good idea. We have a set of children kind of caught in no mans land. They are culturally Americans and often have brothers and sisters who are americans. They were not willing participants in any violation of US law that occurred.

They are very unlikely to be deported and will generally end up beating the system one way or another. Again helping to build this gray economy out of reach of the normal.
Apparently enough DREAMies object to the military provision to have started a petition. Furthermore, this isn’t a “straw man argument,” it is the position of actual DREAM Act supporters. How do you know what DREAMies want, or whether the majority support or oppose this?
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:18 AM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,524,913 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Apparently enough DREAMies object to the military provision to have started a petition. Furthermore, this isn’t a “straw man argument,” it is the position of actual DREAM Act supporters. How do you know what DREAMies want, or whether the majority support or oppose this?
I read the record.

It is utterly a straw man. Goes no where. The only ones who jump on it are from the right looking for a "straw man".

Given they can't get the dream to work now it is not going to work with the removal of the military piece.

Note that the dream will likely appear in the first compromise legislation in the area. Actually all sorts of people on both sides like the DREAM. The just need cover to adopt it.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,826,194 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
I read the record.

It is utterly a straw man. Goes no where. The only ones who jump on it are from the right looking for a "straw man".

Given they can't get the dream to work now it is not going to work with the removal of the military piece.

Note that the dream will likely appear in the first compromise legislation in the area. Actually all sorts of people on both sides like the DREAM. The just need cover to adopt it.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I am not “from the right.” Perhaps someone should inform the thousands of DREAMies who support this that it’s being used as a straw man argument.

The DREAM Act will be defeated again, as it has so many times in the past. We don’t need to reward illegals, period. And, let’s not play games. We aren’t discussing innocent children, because the vast majority of DREAMies are adults. If they truly want to become citizens of this country, they should return to their countries of origin, and apply through legal channels. We owe them nothing.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:49 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,826 posts, read 30,101,014 times
Reputation: 17698
The children of people who commit other acts of fraud or theft don't get to keep the gains either even though they are "innocent".
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,826,194 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
The children of people who commit other acts of fraud or theft don't get to keep the gains either even though they are "innocent".
Perhaps we should start a college fund for the children of bank robbers.
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Old 09-13-2010, 01:12 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,160,108 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Perhaps we should start a college fund for the children of bank robbers.
Makes just about as much sense as rewarding these Dreamies for the lawbreaking of their parents, doesn't it?
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