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Old 09-16-2010, 04:43 PM
 
39,086 posts, read 23,221,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
If the Tea Party is ONLY advocating for Whites, then yes she is not representing her district.

I really don't see how making Hispanic an ethnicity (rather than race) helps your case. If you're not advocating equally for all legal Americans, it's divisive and, to appease you, ethnically driven.

Regarding the Women's Caucus. Why not call it the Constitutional Caucus? The Constitution is for all, male and female, young and old, poor and rich, etc. If their caucus is only to advance women it's Genderism (I made that word up). But that's what it would be. The same thing goes for a Male Caucus, a Rich Caucus, a Poor Caucus, and any other Caucus you can think up. Members of Congress are to represent each individual, not specific groups, agendas or special interests (regardless how high percentage wise that group may be) that make up their district.
I think you've come into this with some preconceptions about the case I'm trying to make.

Members of Congress regularly establish caucuses that identify their specific interests as well as the interests of some of their constituents. The Hispanic Caucus was established in 1976 because several members of Congress wanted a group that would work together to address issues they felt strongly about and which were issues their constituents felt strongly about. The Women's Caucus was established for similar reasons. There are many, many Caucuses in Congress. They are part of the networking that has to be done between members in order to form alliances and get certain bills passed. For exactly the same reason, Michelle Bachmann this past spring established the Tea Party Caucus. It's a part of the networking that has to be done between members in order to form alliances and get bills passed. If you go back and read my posts, I supported the formation of the Tea Party Caucus, because it's a productive aspect of how Congress works. When I introduced the Tea Party Caucus into this thread, it was not an attack on the Tea Party, it was an attempt to point out that the Hispanic Caucus and the Tea Party Caucus were both formed for the same reasons. To provide Congressional members with what are essentially clubs where they can work together to achieve specific political goals.
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Old 09-16-2010, 04:44 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,317,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
The Hispanic Caucus, which you didn't have a problem with 5 years ago, is not racist. Hispanic is not a race.
I have a problem with any Representative of Congress that does not advocate equally for each individual within their district. Regardless of their race or ethnicity. How does a group that flaunts itself as advocating ONLY for a particular ethnic group (in this case Hispanics) help your case? Advocating for, or discriminating against, any particular individual or group due to their ethnicity, or exclusion thereof, is really no different than racism. How does one control their ethnicity anymore than their race? Do not our tax dollars support all the members of Congress?
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Old 09-16-2010, 04:47 PM
 
39,086 posts, read 23,221,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
I have a problem with any Representative of Congress that does not advocate equally for each individual within their district. Regardless of their race or ethnicity. How does a group that flaunts itself as advocating ONLY for a particular ethnic group (in this case Hispanics) help your case? Advocating for, or discriminating against, any particular individual or group due to their ethnicity, or exclusion thereof, is really no different than racism. How does one control their ethnicity anymore than their race? Do not our tax dollars support all the members of Congress?
I don't think you understand Caucuses. Membership in a Caucus does not mean that you advocate only for a specific cause. For heaven's sake, there was a 4-H Caucus. I don't think the Congressmen who belonged to that Caucus advocated only for 4-H members. Here's a list of the literally hundreds of Caucuses that have been formed by Congressional members.

Caucuses of the United States Congress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 09-16-2010, 04:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Again, are all the people in Michelle Bachmann's district Tea Party members? Doesn't she have an obligation to represent the people of her district who are not Tea Party members.

And Hispanic is not a race. It's an ethnicity. Is it wrong to recognize that there is bias and prejudice against people of Hispanic descent? Is it wrong to want to work to repair the damage from bias and prejudice?

What about the Congressional Women's Caucus? Is it wrong of them to recognize that there is still inequality in how women are treated by our society? Is it wrong for them to want to repair the damage from bias and prejudice?
Of course Bachman has an obligation to represent ALL of the people in her district. Did she or anyone else say otherwise?

I am quite aware that Hispanic is not a race but an ethnicity. What bias and prejudice is there against legal and law abiding Hispanics in this country?

You are mixing apples with oranges here. Fighting for women's rights is not the same as advocating for one ethnic group of women or men.
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Old 09-16-2010, 04:52 PM
 
39,086 posts, read 23,221,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
I have a problem with any Representative of Congress that does not advocate equally for each individual within their district. Regardless of their race or ethnicity. How does a group that flaunts itself as advocating ONLY for a particular ethnic group (in this case Hispanics) help your case? Advocating for, or discriminating against, any particular individual or group due to their ethnicity, or exclusion thereof, is really no different than racism. How does one control their ethnicity anymore than their race? Do not our tax dollars support all the members of Congress?
And how is a Representative of Congress going to be able to advocate equally for each individual within his or her district? They represent hundreds of thousands of people. People who run the gamut of opinions. How is a representative going to advocate for the pro-abortion individuals in his district and for the anti-abortion individuals? The districts are too large. The representative has to rely on what he campaigned on, the issues and positions he took before he got elected, and hope that his positions are consistent with the majority of his constituents. Because he's only got a short term in office. Two years goes by fast for representatives. And he's probably trying to represent a LOT of people.
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Old 09-16-2010, 04:55 PM
 
39,086 posts, read 23,221,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Of course Bachman has an obligation to represent ALL of the people in her district. Did she or anyone else say otherwise?

I am quite aware that Hispanic is not a race but an ethnicity. What bias and prejudice is there against legal and law abiding Hispanics in this country?

You are mixing apples with oranges here. Fighting for women's rights is not the same as advocating for one ethnic group of women or men.
No, I'm not mixing apples with oranges. There are hundreds of Caucuses. The only thing a Caucus needs is for people to have something in common. Do you have a problem with an Irish Caucus? Or a Baptist Caucus? Or a Left-Handers Caucus?
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Way,Way Up On The Old East Coast
2,179 posts, read 1,674,131 times
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Default Who Would Of Ever Imagined This From A U.S. President !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny-Days90 View Post
He is, because he is illegal himself.

The last sentence tells me he knows he is a lame duck, he wants to open our borders before his sorry butt is out of office and the dems are gone from congress.

Let me make it clear Obamadung, the majority of us DO NOT stand with you on this issue.
Sunny Days90 !!! ... You Are Well Within The Mark !

Indeed this latest madness from the WH is absolutely unprecedented !

In final analysis ... The stigmata to America known as "Illegal Alien's" simply does not appear to be comprehended mentally by "HO & Crew" !

American Citizenship is absolutely too valuable to be simply given away to anyone such as those in our nation whom are here "Illegally" !

American Citizenship must be earned, worked for, properly processed, and bestowed upon those who honorably fulfill the process for obtaining such an important status !

Never in a million years would I ever have dreamed that any American President and Political Party could be so pathetically weak and inept as these worrisome liberal "DINO'S" !

If the American People allow this nations rights of Citizenship to be simply given away by our simpleton "Career Politicians" to those whom are here "Illegally" for the purpose of obtaining political capital .... our blessed country is indeed finished !

Nay Not So Folks ! It musn't happen now nor ever !

AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP ... Must Be Earned !

Thanks / Not So Old Sgt. Lamar
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:14 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,317,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I think you've come into this with some preconceptions about the case I'm trying to make.

Members of Congress regularly establish caucuses that identify their specific interests as well as the interests of some of their constituents. The Hispanic Caucus was established in 1976 because several members of Congress wanted a group that would work together to address issues they felt strongly about and which were issues their constituents felt strongly about. The Women's Caucus was established for similar reasons. There are many, many Caucuses in Congress. They are part of the networking that has to be done between members in order to form alliances and get certain bills passed. For exactly the same reason, Michelle Bachmann this past spring established the Tea Party Caucus. It's a part of the networking that has to be done between members in order to form alliances and get bills passed. If you go back and read my posts, I supported the formation of the Tea Party Caucus, because it's a productive aspect of how Congress works. When I introduced the Tea Party Caucus into this thread, it was not an attack on the Tea Party, it was an attempt to point out that the Hispanic Caucus and the Tea Party Caucus were both formed for the same reasons. To provide Congressional members with what are essentially clubs where they can work together to achieve specific political goals.
But don't you see. The political goals of each congressional caucus should be to advance ALL Americans as individuals, and to advocate the interests COMMON to all of us, just not a particular group. When you have a caucus that focuses on a particular aspect that not all partake of (such as being Hispanic in this case) it causes a very racially (or ethnically if you prefer) divisive nation. It also embitters those that can not participate in, or are excluded from, that particular caucus.
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:31 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,317,766 times
Reputation: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
And how is a Representative of Congress going to be able to advocate equally for each individual within his or her district? They represent hundreds of thousands of people. People who run the gamut of opinions. How is a representative going to advocate for the pro-abortion individuals in his district and for the anti-abortion individuals? The districts are too large. The representative has to rely on what he campaigned on, the issues and positions he took before he got elected, and hope that his positions are consistent with the majority of his constituents. Because he's only got a short term in office. Two years goes by fast for representatives. And he's probably trying to represent a LOT of people.
It's not about taking sides with a particular issue or group. That's not what I mean by representation. You represent each individual with equal justice, fairness and equality. You use the same scales and balances, if you will, for each individual person that you represent. You represent (by treating) the poor and rich alike. You treat each ethnicity alike. You do not use, let's say for instance affirmative action, to advance or to treat one group different than another to achieve a particular goal. That in my mind is what equal representation is.

IOW (to make my point), I want Bill Gates to be entitled to food stamps, subsidized housing, and for his kids to get free lunches at school and free emergency health care if he wants it. I want Bill Gates (as well as everyone else) to be considered equal in the eyes of our government when it comes to every tax dollar supported social service program. That's what I mean by Congressional representation.
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:50 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,317,766 times
Reputation: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
No, I'm not mixing apples with oranges. There are hundreds of Caucuses. The only thing a Caucus needs is for people to have something in common. Do you have a problem with an Irish Caucus? Or a Baptist Caucus? Or a Left-Handers Caucus?
I would have a problem with an Irish caucus. Not everyone can be Irish. That is something you're either born into or have attained through Irish Citizenship.

I would not have a problem with a Baptist caucus. Anyone can be a Baptist if they choose to be so. I don't know anyone that is born into the world being a Baptist, except perhaps John the Baptist...LOL

A left-handers caucus is also a no-no. Not everyone is born left handed or has bilateral dexterity.
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