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Old 09-18-2010, 04:06 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,897 times
Reputation: 46

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2ten View Post
You're not here to discuss ANYTHING...you're not interested in views beyond your own. Your whole purpose is to stir up crap so you can smell the stench.
Useless beyond words.
This is what I'm talking about. So when I get attacked, it's okay. But when I bring up a fallacy. This happens. It's your problem.

 
Old 09-18-2010, 04:08 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,897 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Amnesty to a foreign invader is extremism in the minds of many. A government that refused to uphold the immigration laws on the books has harmed this country, not the people arguing for the rule of law. Yeah, lots of people like to play those who break our laws with impunity as the "victims". They are the ones who are wrong.
Not really. It can have benefits. They're not invaders. That's a little on the dramatic. Again, and what I get flack for, is stating the obvious...it's not a morality issue and it's really a complex topic. Apparently, many people feel that is a an insult to their views.

Not to mention that deportation would create a whole host problems. So there has to be some amnesty with some punitive measures as well as deportation of those who have committed felonies. It's impunity. I think that there can be a good temperate solution.
 
Old 09-18-2010, 04:10 PM
 
344 posts, read 152,897 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Wow, and yet some people can't see their own racism because all they ever see in an article about illegal immigration is the word "Mexican".
Read the entire thing. What does your post even mean?
 
Old 09-18-2010, 06:23 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
Reputation: 17682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
Read the entire thing. What does your post even mean?
You are already dragging out the "race" card. The majority of illegals are Mexican. You cannot call someone racist because the topic of illegal immigration is mostly about Mexicans by default. Come on.


I wish most of them were coming from Canada so people like you wouldn't have a sidebar topic to pick at.



It's about people coming here illegally changing our Nation for the worse. Most of us aren't ok with it, get used to hearing that.
 
Old 09-18-2010, 06:25 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
Reputation: 17682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phxguy View Post
With that being said, it makes me wonder how people assume the immigration bill targets Mexicans. Where in the law does it state "Mexicans shall be targeted for the color of their skin and for being in Arizona"?
It doesn't but when they have ran out of a valid argument they always trot out the race card pony.

It's equivalent to using your last air planes as suicide machines.
 
Old 09-18-2010, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Tokyo (but will always be) Phoenix, Az
932 posts, read 1,640,142 times
Reputation: 530
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
It doesn't but when they have ran out of a valid argument they always trot out the race card pony.

It's equivalent to using your last air planes as suicide machines.
Yeah, and I hate that, since when has not liking illegals been racist? Most of these pro-illegals are just so blinded with ignorance that they can't even state an excusable claim. It's either "They're here just for work" (hence the 12 Americans who are murdered everyday by illegals), "America was ours first", "They just want a better life (Does that included destroying others) or when they're real desperate they'll pull the race card.
 
Old 09-18-2010, 06:35 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,581,657 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
It's sad. I feel sorry for the state of the nation if we have people that can't see two sides of an issue. I think that illegal immigration isn't our greatest threat. It's extremism. It's rampant on this board. No wonder why there are so few moderate views on this board. It's all or nothing with you people. It's shocking how much of your arguments are rooted in nothing more than a tribal mentality of us vs. them. Anyone who disagrees with some aspects is "against" you in your mind. For example I said if a person was a felon he should be deported. Essentially that too soft for some. You're mirroring what's wrong in our current political climate. It's sad that your efforts to try to aid this country are actually harming it.
What do you mean YOU PEOPLE? LOL

But, no, seriosuly, I'm sorry you feel that way. Some of us live in areas that actually feel the effects and see the results of illegal immigration first hand. People's daily lives, pockets, and families are affected by illegal immigration and they have a problem with that. Everyone has a right to decide what they will express in this country and what issue they have a desire to attempt to make less of an issue. It IS "US vs THEM." I'm sorry, but it is. You tell all of what you said to the man who is legally here, but can't get a job at the restaurant, factory, construction site, hospital, or has to wait in line behind 10 undocumented families in the food assistance office.

I take offence that you would accuse people of "mirroring what is wrong in our current political climate." What way would you have it? What actions or attitudes should the people that you are talking to take? Should they not care? Should they notice something, notice an injustice or a violation as the result of illegal immigration, but just say, "It's OK?" Are you saying that people should be forced to abandon what they really think about illegal immigration and start looking for common ground just so they won't be seen as bad people in yours or others eyes? It's not like that. People here aren't a bunch of dumb, country-bumpkin, racist people running around hating illegal immigrants. It's called reading ... it's called being involved in your community and country and knowing what is going on and having a mind to see that those things are creating current and future problems.

You are right, it is tribal, but I care about other people, but my care to not see people get the crappy end of a deal leads me to say, "Sorry, undocumented people, but I got to put those who have the right to what you are receiving first."

By the way, could you please provide us with reasons why what anyone is doing here is "harming the country?" I guess you think we are hateful people who go around burning crosses on yards? Or maybe we are just the people that I described above? Your post, the words you said, the assumptions you made and the judgemental approach puts you in the position to be labeled as something just in the way you have labeled people here, congratulations.

I just realized that it is CALIFREEMAN that posted this. You throwing in the towel?
 
Old 09-18-2010, 06:44 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,581,657 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Califreeman View Post
This has an element of racism. The posts on here sometimes muddy the waters. That's understandable. However, I got a DM stating that one poster was fine with illegal Asian immigrants, but not Hispanic. It struck as me as odd. Then you read on different forums, other posters being anti-Hispanic. I'm not stating that all extreme anti-illegal activists are racist. That's too blanket of a statement. However it fosters that environment.

In our current climate, we see what happens with extremism. People against the mosque in Manhattan probably were not Islamophobic as a whole. However, they had a very extreme view (limit first amendment rights to one religion). That view fostered a climate in where we see vandalism in California, mass protests against that led to violence in Tennessee, and threats of Koran burnings in FL.

Yes, illegal immigrants are not legal and Muslims in America are most likely legal. However, that distinction aside doesn't mean that moderate views should be discounted. Extremist views lead to bad policy and further division of our nation. We already know that.
And THAT is for that individual. You can't lump a group of people together and call them all racist. To me, reading your posts, you seem like a free-spirit, this-world-is-our-world, hippy (not trying to use that in a bad way, just feel that that image describes your post). People aren't hearing that stuff man, sorry. You can take that approach, that's your business. But, you got to understand that people really are being affected by illegal immigration and there's not much that is going to make them feel like "Oh, it's OK, I decided that I have no problem." The same with yourself maybe, there is probably nothing that someone can say to make you want to join in reducing illegal immigration. You may not be in the position to witness or experience what illegal immigration has as consequences for yourself or people.

So, with that said, play your role, that's your business. I learned long ago that I couldn't save the world. I try. I recently posted something on my webpage about how wrong it is for people in NYC to be burning the Qu'ran. Yet, I am very against illegal immigration. Am I racist against Mexicans (because I seek to reduce illegal immigration), but for some reason don't mind Arab people? See how silly that sounds? Is that what those who call us racists would categorize me as?
 
Old 09-18-2010, 06:52 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,581,657 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2ten View Post
You're not here to discuss ANYTHING...you're not interested in views beyond your own. Your whole purpose is to stir up crap so you can smell the stench.
Useless beyond words.
This is true.
 
Old 09-18-2010, 06:54 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,581,657 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Wow, and yet some people can't see their own racism because all they ever see in an article about illegal immigration is the word "Mexican".
That's a good point because a lot of pro-illegal immigrant people seem to have issues with White Americans even if they are white themselves.
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