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Old 09-27-2010, 09:44 AM
 
2,671 posts, read 2,717,339 times
Reputation: 1979

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This article says there is only one farm in CA which is using the legal farm guest worker program. ONE! Why do you think that is? There is a LEGAL alternative, but these farms choose to hire undocumented workers.

We purchase the fruit and vegtables, so we are indirectly supporting illegal immigration. Quite possibly these farms are able to skirt the minimum wage, and abuse of people who little grasp of the language of the land.

It also states that even with 16% unemployment that Americans are not applying for farm jobs. Why? Why won't unemployed Americans pick vegtables or fruit? Even if the farm paid $10 and hour, Americans just aren't interested. Why?

I don't think there is one answer, and this isn't cut and dry issue.

Despite economy, Americans don't want farm work - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_immigration_jobs - broken link)
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,853,611 times
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Perhaps this explains why a whopping 75% of farm workers in this country are U.S. citizens or legal residents. Contrary to pro-illegal propaganda, only 2-4% of illegal aliens are picking crops.

Perhaps a better question is: Why are 96-98% of illegal aliens not interested in applying for these positions?
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:36 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,185,212 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecovlke View Post
This article says there is only one farm in CA which is using the legal farm guest worker program. ONE! Why do you think that is? There is a LEGAL alternative, but these farms choose to hire undocumented workers.

We purchase the fruit and vegtables, so we are indirectly supporting illegal immigration. Quite possibly these farms are able to skirt the minimum wage, and abuse of people who little grasp of the language of the land.

It also states that even with 16% unemployment that Americans are not applying for farm jobs. Why? Why won't unemployed Americans pick vegtables or fruit? Even if the farm paid $10 and hour, Americans just aren't interested. Why?

I don't think there is one answer, and this isn't cut and dry issue.

Despite economy, Americans don't want farm work - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_immigration_jobs - broken link)
It is ridiculous to state that we shouldn't be buying produce in the store because some illegal "might" have picked them. It is up to the farmers to use legal labor. It isn't up to us to police them. That is our government's job.

Most Americans don't live in rural areas. They live near large cities because that is where the good paying jobs are. Most adult Americans can get more in unemployment benefits than they could get picking crops. Do you really expect a white collar worker to pick crops? Our American youth are quite capable of picking crops though that live in rural areas but the farmers would expect them to work for slave labor wages also and that is why they hire illegals instead. These farmers have no excuse if they can't find Americans to pick crops because there are unlimited H-2A visas for legal immigrant labor. They choose not to do so because they can pay the illegals less and exploit them as you pointed out yourself.
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:47 AM
 
3,378 posts, read 3,145,715 times
Reputation: 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It is ridiculous to state that we shouldn't be buying produce in the store because some illegal "might" have picked them. It is up to the farmers to use legal labor. It isn't up to us to police them. That is our government's job.

Most Americans don't live in rural areas. They live near large cities because that is where the good paying jobs are. Most adult Americans can get more in unemployment benefits than they could get picking crops. Do you really expect a white collar worker to pick crops? Our American youth are quite capable of picking crops though that live in rural areas but the farmers would expect them to work for slave labor wages also and that is why they hire illegals instead. These farmers have no excuse if they can't find Americans to pick crops because there are unlimited H-2A visas for legal immigrant labor. They choose not to do so because they can pay the illegals less and exploit them as you pointed out yourself.
my thoughts on the above points of interest.

1. I agree that most americans live in more urban areas. Its just not practical for 90% of americans to work on farms
2. I am convinced that there are still many farmers hiring illegals, and paying them less than minimum wage. They are also not paying social security, and they are encouraging illegal activity. I believe that many of these jobs will never become available to legal americans because the employers do not want to pay full wages. And, its possible that any legal workers would turn them in for hiring illegals.

3. The fed gov't needs to crack down... but the dems won't do it
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:46 PM
 
2,671 posts, read 2,717,339 times
Reputation: 1979
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It is ridiculous to state that we shouldn't be buying produce in the store because some illegal "might" have picked them. It is up to the farmers to use legal labor. It isn't up to us to police them. That is our government's job.

Most Americans don't live in rural areas. They live near large cities because that is where the good paying jobs are. Most adult Americans can get more in unemployment benefits than they could get picking crops. Do you really expect a white collar worker to pick crops? Our American youth are quite capable of picking crops though that live in rural areas but the farmers would expect them to work for slave labor wages also and that is why they hire illegals instead. These farmers have no excuse if they can't find Americans to pick crops because there are unlimited H-2A visas for legal immigrant labor. They choose not to do so because they can pay the illegals less and exploit them as you pointed out yourself.

Farms are in the market to earn money. Corporate farms are in the market to earn lots of money. What they understand is the bottom line at the expense of everything else. If you were against illegal immigration as much as you come on here and post on it then you would boycott all farms that use illegal labor. Hence, if everyone did that do you honestly honestly think these profit driven corporate farms wouldn't take heed?

Don't make assumptions. Just where did it say all the people out of work were living in 'big cities'? Some of the highest unemployment regions are rural. Rural areas also have a huge problem with poverty. Where did it say that 'white collar' workers should pick crops? It didn't, and I wouldn't expect an educated individual to pick crops. I would expect an unskilled laboror to be able to do farm work. And if they have to move then so be it. The thing is, one of the rants is that illegals are taking jobs that would otherwise go to Americans. Heck, they can't even get a lazy, out of work American to do this labor. And people support these farms who skirt the law. they support them by buying their goods.

I think people should put their money where their mouths are. If anyone wants to get hysterical about illegal labor then don't buy the goods from the companies that hire them! Simple logic.
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,853,611 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecovlke View Post
Farms are in the market to earn money. Corporate farms are in the market to earn lots of money. What they understand is the bottom line at the expense of everything else. If you were against illegal immigration as much as you come on here and post on it then you would boycott all farms that use illegal labor. Hence, if everyone did that do you honestly honestly think these profit driven corporate farms wouldn't take heed?

Don't make assumptions. Just where did it say all the people out of work were living in 'big cities'? Some of the highest unemployment regions are rural. Rural areas also have a huge problem with poverty. Where did it say that 'white collar' workers should pick crops? It didn't, and I wouldn't expect an educated individual to pick crops. I would expect an unskilled laboror to be able to do farm work. And if they have to move then so be it. The thing is, one of the rants is that illegals are taking jobs that would otherwise go to Americans. Heck, they can't even get a lazy, out of work American to do this labor. And people support these farms who skirt the law. they support them by buying their goods.

I think people should put their money where their mouths are. If anyone wants to get hysterical about illegal labor then don't buy the goods from the companies that hire them! Simple logic.
In other words, we should not only boycott suspected illegal farm owners, but EVERY industry in this country. Companies employ illegals because they know they can violate our laws with impunity. As long as our government refuses to enforce our laws, illegal employment will continue to thrive. Itís just that simple.

Perhaps you can get the ball rolling by posting a list of illegal employers to boycott.
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:24 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,598,196 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecovlke View Post
This article says there is only one farm in CA which is using the legal farm guest worker program. ONE! Why do you think that is? There is a LEGAL alternative, but these farms choose to hire undocumented workers.

We purchase the fruit and vegtables, so we are indirectly supporting illegal immigration. Quite possibly these farms are able to skirt the minimum wage, and abuse of people who little grasp of the language of the land.

It also states that even with 16% unemployment that Americans are not applying for farm jobs. Why? Why won't unemployed Americans pick vegtables or fruit? Even if the farm paid $10 and hour, Americans just aren't interested. Why?

I don't think there is one answer, and this isn't cut and dry issue.

Despite economy, Americans don't want farm work - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_immigration_jobs - broken link)
Just like I have told everyone else who wonders about this: there's not enough "Americans" in the farm areas to even do those jobs. A migrant worker has the ability to leave where they came from and go to a community or rural town that is known for farming. Not many people who are already settled here and unemployed can pack up and go, especially when those farm jobs are temporary. So many people live far away from farms, so they have an inconvenience getting to the job. Also, those farm jobs don't pay enough in some situations, so it is more advantageous to stay in one's area and look for a job or as a Senator recently said: it is often better for them to stay on unemployment.
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:34 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,185,212 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecovlke View Post
Farms are in the market to earn money. Corporate farms are in the market to earn lots of money. What they understand is the bottom line at the expense of everything else. If you were against illegal immigration as much as you come on here and post on it then you would boycott all farms that use illegal labor. Hence, if everyone did that do you honestly honestly think these profit driven corporate farms wouldn't take heed?

Don't make assumptions. Just where did it say all the people out of work were living in 'big cities'? Some of the highest unemployment regions are rural. Rural areas also have a huge problem with poverty. Where did it say that 'white collar' workers should pick crops? It didn't, and I wouldn't expect an educated individual to pick crops. I would expect an unskilled laboror to be able to do farm work. And if they have to move then so be it. The thing is, one of the rants is that illegals are taking jobs that would otherwise go to Americans. Heck, they can't even get a lazy, out of work American to do this labor. And people support these farms who skirt the law. they support them by buying their goods.

I think people should put their money where their mouths are. If anyone wants to get hysterical about illegal labor then don't buy the goods from the companies that hire them! Simple logic.
We have no way of knowing what employers/farmers are hiring illegal labor. What would you expect us to do, not buy anything? As I said, and you missed the point it is up to the government to keep these employers honest, not us. How do you know what any of us do in this forum to fight illegal immigration? You sure do assume a lot, don't you?

We keep repeating it but it is also going right over your head that these farmers and other employers are "preferring" illegal aliens to Americans because they can pay them less so it doesn't matter if there is line of Americans to hell and back for those jobs, they won't get hired anyway.

What are you doing personally doing to fight illegal immigration? Since you seem to be defending it, I'll bet nothing.
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:36 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,185,212 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoEdible View Post
Just like I have told everyone else who wonders about this: there's not enough "Americans" in the farm areas to even do those jobs. A migrant worker has the ability to leave where they came from and go to a community or rural town that is known for farming. Not many people who are already settled here and unemployed can pack up and go, especially when those farm jobs are temporary. So many people live far away from farms, so they have an inconvenience getting to the job. Also, those farm jobs don't pay enough in some situations, so it is more advantageous to stay in one's area and look for a job or as a Senator recently said: it is often better for them to stay on unemployment.
I already told him/her that but they refused to acknowledge it.
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Old 09-28-2010, 09:02 AM
 
2,671 posts, read 2,717,339 times
Reputation: 1979
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
We have no way of knowing what employers/farmers are hiring illegal labor. What would you expect us to do, not buy anything? As I said, and you missed the point it is up to the government to keep these employers honest, not us. How do you know what any of us do in this forum to fight illegal immigration? You sure do assume a lot, don't you?

We keep repeating it but it is also going right over your head that these farmers and other employers are "preferring" illegal aliens to Americans because they can pay them less so it doesn't matter if there is line of Americans to hell and back for those jobs, they won't get hired anyway.

What are you doing personally doing to fight illegal immigration? Since you seem to be defending it, I'll bet nothing.
Here's what I do, but it's not to fight illegal immigration. I don't care as much about the illegal workers as I do their human rights. It's my fight against companies that choose to abuse people who have the least means to fight back.

I buy my produce from local growers when in season. When not in season I buy organic, and from a reputable grocery that takes account of like minded people. I actually check where the produce was grown before I buy.

I absolutely do not buy from Tyson, Simmons, Iowa Beef, Con-Agra, to name a few. How? I check what I buy before I buy. Plus, you will have to do a little research. There are many companies that are subsidiaries of Con-Agra. Con-Agra is freaking huge. I eat meat, but I buy sausages that are prepared in my state from a company with an ethical mission. I plan to go in with some other people to buy beef from a local rancher. (I don't need a whole lot of meat, and that's why I plan to go in with others since we have to buy a side or a 1/4 of a side).

I've eased myself away from the over processed, pre-packaged, box food. It's almost always produced by huge, corporate conglomerates. They don't need my money, and I don't want to give them one cent toward their unhealthy food. I know how to cook without everything coming in a pre-packaged box. So. I cook. Real food.

Am I 100% successful in my little battle against the food corporation giants? Of course not. But there are more and more people who are becoming more conscientious of food production. There are more urban environments that are beginning to grow local produce.

I do believe if people would stop supplying these companies with revenue then the companies would change their ways. They may not care about the ethical treatment of other humans but they do care about a buck. If losing a buck will hurt them then I will not buy from them.

We Americans have become lazy. Too many people would rather set their fat behinds at a computer and scream like mad-men about illegal immigrants than actually do something that would make a difference. People scream about the Mexicans 'takin' jobs from Americans' and when it's pointed out that Americans just ain't applying for many of these jobs then they make excuses as to why Americans aren't applying.

The next time you buy an over-sized chicken breast (yeah, they pump those chicks with growth hormones so they will grow big and grow fast) then you can thank a Mexican, because he butchered that chicken for you to buy it all nice, pretty and packaged.

The next time you bite into a steak. Thank a Mexican.

The next time you enjoy a tossed salad. Thank a Mexican.

Everytime you raise your voice against an 'illegal' just remember YOU are benefiting from his near slave labor. You would probably not be eathing if it weren't for a Mexican. So thank a Mexican!

You cannot have it both ways.

We can force this country to reform the immigration system to one that has forcible limits, and a fair guest worker program. Most Mexicans don't want to leave their country to live in this stinking country. They come because there are jobs. They come because too many Americans are too lazy to work the jobs they will work and be treated like trash by the companies that you are buying from. They come to save their lives and their childrens' lives. They are human. They are the humans that keep the slovenly, fat Americans eating.

We can work toward a reasonable solution, but that won't come by hysteria.
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