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Old 09-29-2010, 10:20 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,390,175 times
Reputation: 2345

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Oh you're just ranting now. Again.

Your post has nothing to do with immigration history or illegal immigration or even American history.

Go away.

More importantly take your self pity, your misconceptions about Jews, your ludicrous oversimplication of the Israeli situation, your misconceptions of Jewish law and your lack of understanding of American immigration history with you. The vast majority of Jews migrated legally between 1880 and 1920 when they were specifically invited by the American government to do so. They were not greeted with the New Deal laws of the 1930's, Yiddish speaking teachers or the right to claim American social services merely for having given birth here.

FYI, Spanish has far more in common with English than it does with German. Given the massive similarities between the two languages there's no excuse for a complete lack of fluency by too many illegal migrants.

Everything I wrote in the OP was true. Immigration laws were different back then. The history of American immigration has been about open doors. And then closing doors.

We've had the door open since 1965. In the teeth of the largest recession in decades we need to tighten legal migration laws and get tough on illegal migration. Mexico has half the unemployment rate we do, huge natural resources and a large economy. There's literally no reason at all for 60% of all illegal migrants to be from Mexico. If Mexicans spent half the energy reclaiming their own country that they do breaking American immigration laws they wouldn't have to leave in the first place.

Americans are under no obligation to ignore law breakers, let alone grant them citizenship, provide them with interpreters and give them handouts from public funds.

No nation does that. We shouldn't either.
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Old 09-29-2010, 10:44 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,168,220 times
Reputation: 2130
Eleanora,

It amazes me how far some people will go to demonize those of us who only want our immigration laws enforced up to and including insinuating that we wouldn't give a thirsty person a drink of water regardless of their immigration status. That's a whole lot different than handing our whole country over to them but then only rational people without an agenda would be able to understand that.
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Old 09-29-2010, 11:32 PM
 
40 posts, read 72,115 times
Reputation: 35
Eleanora,

You will be very happy to know this is my last post to you, so rest assured you can have the last word. Your response was typical. "Go away", this is assimilated American speak for "I can't go toe to toe with you on actual certain points, or even give you a little bit of credit for anything you've said up until now, so I will dismiss it all with over-generalized sweeping statements that basically ignore all you have said to this point." Cool.

The one with the ruffled feathers here is you. I don't get inflamed at terms like "anchor babies" or all the insults I have read you freely throwing around on other posts about immigrants. I thought I brought up some pretty good points, a "rant" you called it. Is a "rant" what you call not being able to defend your point? Once again, everything I had to say you dismissed as having no merits, but that does not make it a rant.

You don't really come here to debate, moreso to get together with like minded people and wallow in your own self pity. Hear those violins softly playing in the background? They are for you.

"Americans are under no obligation to ignore law breakers, let alone grant them citizenship, provide them with interpreters and give them handouts from public funds." Oh, but I beg to differ. Seems like I am the only American here defending the actions of our own beloved government. Our government will decide these issues, not you or little ol' me.

Note to self: Work on a toy line called "Anchor Babies Away". This could be as huge as the water babies of the early 1990s! According to my calculations I should be able to sell at least 30 million right off the bat. Could branch out into a clothing line or a deal with Disney, Dora the explora look out!
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:50 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,168,220 times
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Eleanora,

Pay no attention to those who call illegal aliens "immigrants". It shows a lack of honesty right off the bat. You wiped the floor with this person and we all know it. I guess we have to expect that the pro-illegals are going to continue to come in here and insult those of us for the rule of law. It is what they do since they have no viable arguments for putting illegal foreigners above our own citizens, country and our laws.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:22 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,390,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Eleanora,

Pay no attention to those who call illegal aliens "immigrants". It shows a lack of honesty right off the bat. You wiped the floor with this person and we all know it. I guess we have to expect that the pro-illegals are going to continue to come in here and insult those of us for the rule of law. It is what they do since they have no viable arguments for putting illegal foreigners above our own citizens, country and our laws.
Yeah my next door neighbor happens to be a legal immigrant. She moved here legally from Russia. She speaks English, obeys American laws, teaches her sons English and pays taxes. She and her husband spent thousands of dollars so she could move here LEGALLY. At one point when she was pregnant I asked her why her father was here and her mother was not. She told me her mother couldn't get a visa. Did she say to hell with it and ask her mother to come here anyway? Nah. She obeyed the law. The next year she took her sons to see their grandmother in Russia for three weeks.

In other words she's a law abiding citizen and a credit to our country. She's welcome here. People who can't be bothered to follow the same laws she did, who feel entitled to claim American citizenship while ignoring the fact that it means responsibilities as well as rights are not immigrants.

They are lawbreakers. In the past they've been firmly told that this is not acceptable. It is hardly racism or xenophobia or self pity to point this out.

It is ultimately highly insulting to group people like my law abiding neighbor with line jumpers and trespassers.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:23 AM
 
2,671 posts, read 2,711,643 times
Reputation: 1979
Quote:
Originally Posted by momobear71 View Post
Eleanora,

History, in its entirety, should be taught, not filtered, sanitized and glossed over with an artists fine brush strokes. As I wrote in another post:

“what is happening in the U.S.A. today is not that different than what happened on Plymouth Rock so long ago. The undocumented, therefore illegal, European aliens of 1620 believed in the old English legal proverb of- "possession being nine-tenths of the law" - meaning that possession constituted most of the legal claim to ownership. So, you see, nothing has changed since that unprecedented move. Immigrants are acting in the same manner as our “founding fathers” did so long ago. I guess great minds really do think alike!” Now there’s a lesson for ya.

It should also be taught to America’s next crop of the “best and brightest” about the American companies that set up shop south of the border exploiting workers and polluting their soil and water. On who’s doorstep do you suppose they end up on with their knapsacks and toothbrushes in hand?

How about a history lesson about how NAFTA has left thousands of Mexican without a job? Mexico does not need cheap Chinese junk. The corporate dominated U.S. only worry about the companies involved and their investors. It made certain U.S. corporate entities very happy and very rich. Let’s teach our children how both the US and Mexican governments have been working together to force Mexican farmers off their lands to force them into cities to work for US NAFTA companies for slave wages.

I would also love to teach the little kiddies about the Mexican land seizures of the past but then again why bother when we cannot debate what you won’t acknowledge. And most xenophobes are excellent at manipulating language when and how it suits them. You bury the bad press under cute layers of sanitized euphemisms, cherry picking and my personal favorite, the non-denial denial. Pretty cool stuff to have in your bag of tricks.

While you wish that our government would say no, they are saying yes. They say “no no no” with their lips to white America but they say “si si si” to immigrants with their eyes. And I don’t know about you but for a Latin person the right “come hither look” melts us like Monterrey jack on a hot taco.

Then you said: “America chose immigrants based on American needs…. not to serve as a place for the poor of the world to seek their dreams.” I totally agree with you. Once again though there is a divide in perception…your perception that is. Just because a certain percentage of people cannot figure out why immigrants have been allowed to be here does not mean that they are not wanted. It just means you've been left out of the loop.

Most of your post reads like Charlie Brown’s teachers “waa waa waa waa”, in one ear and sadly, for the teacher, out the other, in other words irrelevant. Would you like to know why Eleanora? Because the movers and shakers of this country have other plans. As my Irish daddy used to say “it matters not.” Meaning your opinions, or mine for that matter, DO NOT matter. You and those like you are “striving to catch the wind”. Got any other hobbies?… “catching moonbeams in a jar”? Good luck with that.

Are you by any chance a daughter of the Confederacy? A young southern belle pining away for the glory days of the “south will rise again” hooey? Dreaming of the day that you can sip your mint Julep, surfing the net in your hoop skirt, watching the darkies pick your cotton. It’s too late. Game over.

Yes, you must immigrate here legally. The problem is with your transparent hatred towards Hispanics. Quote: “No, we are damned well not going to learn Spanish.”, umm really?. It really makes you sound uneducated and painfully jingoistic and provincial at best. Most people on the planet are polyglots. To actually reject the learning of another language is ignorant to the extreme. Learning languages is one of the most complex things the human mind will undertake. Not only does it increase pathway of expression, abstract figures of speech and ideas, facilitate learning but also the etymology of the English language so as to become better communicators and to have a command of one’s own language.

Do you really expect for a person to learn another language in a matter of months? If you do you speak out of tremendous ignorance, extreme resentment to the foreign born, or both.

The smart American would be proactive. They should be learning Spanish in their cars on their way to their pilates classes. The economy is tough people. How many jobs can you afford to let pass by because you can’t say “Buenos dias, mi nombre es Bob Smith?” Any desperate housewives out there? Take a Latin lover, learn a new move or two…..I am talking dance moves here, get your minds out of the gutter you naughty gringos! Buy that chalupa maker for only $19.99 on that tv info-mercial. Mix and mingle. Mix and mingle. There is no sense lamenting what once was, focus on the future. The future that might include a Hispanic son-in-law, grandchild, boss, neighbor, dear God….maybe even a Presidente!!!!! Can’t you see the sheer beauty of it all??? History repeating itself, coinciding quite nicely. The illegal aliens of the 1600’s to today dovetailing in thougt and deeds with the Mexican car washers of 2010 Los Angeles. It makes me want to buy a coke….and teach the world to sing.

So you see, round and round the immigration wheel of fortune goes!….

Like I said in another post before “While very comical and entertaining, all of your impotent kicking and screaming is just that “impotent” kicking and screaming. And like all fussy crying babies what you all really need is to be fed, have your diapers changed and be put to bed....Oh yeah, and taught how to share and play nice.Leave Jose Blow veggie picker alone.

If Paris Hilton can own a chiguagua (That’s Hot.) then I think we should all be able to do our small part too.

“All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian.”
Pat Paulsen
I would rep you a 1000X's if I could. It's good to know I'm not in this battle alone.

It's almost a waste of energy to debate with blockheads who either lack the skill for objectivity, or lack the desire. It is, however, good to come in here on occasion and remind them that hysteria never serves anyone well.

The only thing constant is change,and I do believe there are natural laws on this planet that are in full force. There will be no round up and deportation of brown people anymore than we can turn back the pages of time and round up and deport the the European immigrants of the past.

Am I the ony one who finds it nauseating that someone commenting that in 1492 there was no US, and therefore there was no illegal immigration? Once again, history with a euro-centric viewpoint. Do they honestly believe that those of us who had family on banks of the Eastern shores did not have laws?

While their minds may be too closed to debate the topic logically, I do find a sweet justice in the karma. Yesterday, on a different forum some people were cheering the demise of human life from the mudslide in Mexico. How sick are those people? I just try to remember that we are all inter-connected: human to human, and human to the living and non-living world in which we all reside.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:35 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,390,175 times
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Every single country has immigration laws.

EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY.

FYI, this includes Mexico where 60% of all illegal migrants are from. Mexican immigration laws are actually far stricter than our own. People who migrate to legally Mexico face property restrictions, schooling restrictions and restrictions on freedom of speech. They have no bilingual education programs for non-Spanish speakers nor are they allowed to collect welfare from Mexican taxpayers. People who migrate to Mexico illegally are summarily fined, often jailed and unhesitatingly thrown out of the country.

Frustration against illegal migration does not step from racism and alleged hatred of brown people.



It stems from the very real problems created by unchecked law breaking. Illegal migrants place serious educational and financial burdens on local communities. Unskilled migrants use social services at a far higher rate than natives. Communities that do not know exactly how many people live there cannot plan for the future. Illegal migrants break not only immigration laws but other laws as well such as laws against driving without a license or laws that require documentation for legal employment thus creating a climate in which law breaking is not only tolerated but essentially encouraged.

That is not a recipe for a civil, functioning society.

Arguing that daring to point out these facts is inherently racism is incredibly insulting and ultimately quite childish.
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:49 AM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,327,718 times
Reputation: 6451
A lof of valid points. But should also be taught that the problems we experince with illegal imigration, are the cause of those in Power who are suppose to serve and protect, do either in this case. This problem should have been dealt with, when we first realized we had a problem, now it has esclated, to the point of what, not coming back . And no we should not have to change for those who are in this Country by illegal means, they need to learn our Language, if we choose, we can learn theirs as so many already have learned theirs, but only by our choice. Violation of our imigration laws, should send them packing there bags back home, as in other Countries do.
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:33 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,168,220 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecovlke View Post
I would rep you a 1000X's if I could. It's good to know I'm not in this battle alone.

It's almost a waste of energy to debate with blockheads who either lack the skill for objectivity, or lack the desire. It is, however, good to come in here on occasion and remind them that hysteria never serves anyone well.

The only thing constant is change,and I do believe there are natural laws on this planet that are in full force. There will be no round up and deportation of brown people anymore than we can turn back the pages of time and round up and deport the the European immigrants of the past.

Am I the ony one who finds it nauseating that someone commenting that in 1492 there was no US, and therefore there was no illegal immigration? Once again, history with a euro-centric viewpoint. Do they honestly believe that those of us who had family on banks of the Eastern shores did not have laws?

While their minds may be too closed to debate the topic logically, I do find a sweet justice in the karma. Yesterday, on a different forum some people were cheering the demise of human life from the mudslide in Mexico. How sick are those people? I just try to remember that we are all inter-connected: human to human, and human to the living and non-living world in which we all reside.
The past is the past. Deal with it! Those people are all dead now. This country was established in 1776 and immigration laws were established some time thereafter just like ALL countries have immigration laws. Most of our families have been here for generations now and were all born on U.S. soil. That makes us U.S. citizens.

Blockheads? Real nice civil debate there. Need I reiterate what I said in my last post that the pro-illegals have no viable arguments so they resort to insults? The only hysteria is on the pro-illegal side. They can't get their precious CIR or the Dream Act passed and illegals are being deported as we speak. Deportation of "brown" people? What difference does is make what color skin an illegal has? They all need to be deported. Race card after insults falls right in line with what I said about the pro-illegal's demonizing tactics.

If you had native indian ancestors here when the Europeans arrived we have treaties with the descendants of those tribes today and they have their soveirgn lands and are fully U.S. citizens just like the rest of us.

What is the point of your last paragraph commenting on some idiots salivating over a loss of life in Mexico by a mudslide? Are you trying to claim that this reflects the sentiments of most Americans? What has that to do with illegal immigration anyway? You just pulled tactic number three by the pro-illegals. Try to make it appear that all Americans opposed to illegal immigration are heartless, genocidal maniacs. You managed to use all three demonizing tactics in one post. Congratulations!

Forgot tactic number 4. Drag up the past and hold white Americans alive today accountable for what their ancestors did or didn't do. Mine migrated here in the early 1900's well after any native indian conflicts occured. That would include many blacks, Asians and other racial groups that came here well after those conflicts. Never hear any complaints about those racial groups comiing here by the pro-illegals though, only white people.
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,836,058 times
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Kudos, Eleanora1!

In addition, our students need a lesson in ethics, because the emphasis on “tolerance” has fostered the belief that “anything goes.” Lacking moral dictates, the end always justifies the means. Therefore, it’s okay to violate the laws of a sovereign nation, if, as a result, one can have a better life than in one’s country of origin.

I think most of us empathize with desperate people. However, desperation does not absolve culpability, nor does it negate established laws. Millions of citizens have lost jobs, and foreclosures are at an all-time high; but, despite their desperation, they aren’t robbing banks or burglarizing homes to improve their lot. If they did, few would advocate their “right” to do so; and, none would be castigated for opposing their decision to live outside the law.

Regardless of circumstances, there is NO justification for illegal immigration. Nevertheless, the morally bankrupt and the PC compliant will continue to defend illegal aliens’ “right” to violate our laws. Generally, the most rabid pro-illegals either profit from illegal immigration, have relatives and/or friends who are illegal, or are themselves illegal. Lacking a substantive defense, they routinely rely on childish name-calling, or whatever inane tactic will deflect attention from the lawlessness they condone. Their efforts are, and shall remain, futile.
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