U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-28-2010, 09:58 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,389,743 times
Reputation: 2345

Advertisements

I think too often people graduate from high school with myths about immigration firmly planted in their brains. They come away thinking that American immigration was a continuous process of constantly open immigration; that immigrants were not firmly and legally encouraged to assimilate and adopt American culture and language as soon as possible; that immigrants with physical or mental defects were welcomed to our shores; that there was no such thing as legal immigration.

We need to teach:

1) American immigration came in waves. Once the door was shut it was shut. You were not encouraged to break our immigration laws without penalty.

2) Bilingual education was enormously discouraged. Students were pushed to learn English as soon as possible. Adults who did not learn English were not given interpreters or encouraged to spend their whole lives completely ignorant of English. While pockets of other languages may have existed here and there the primary language of Americans has always been English.

3) Immigration was a sink or swim process. If you could not succeed here you were told firmly to get out and go home. There was no such thing as welfare. You were not permitted to be a public charge. One third of all Italian immigrants came here, could not succeed and left for their home country permanently.

4) America chose immigrants based on American needs. We let in immigrants when we felt we needed them. When we stopped needing them the door was shut. The goal was to meet American needs; not to serve as place where every poor person in the world could come here and seek their dreams.

We need to teach something more than the standard pap about immigration. We also need to implement laws that make sense. Yes, you must immigrate here legally. No, we are damned well not going to learn Spanish. Your inability to speak English is not an American taxpayer's problem to solve. No, you cannot get handouts from the United States government just because you snuck across the border without permission.

The goal of American immigration law must be to do what every nation does: to serve the needs of the American people. Not foreigners who want Americans to provide them with subsidies.

We're a very generous country. The only way we can continue to be generous is to have an immigration policy that serves our economic needs and allows to continue to be a place people actually want to live.

We need to do a better job teaching those facts to our children.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-28-2010, 10:14 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,166,436 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
I think too often people graduate from high school with myths about immigration firmly planted in their brains. They come away thinking that American immigration was a continuous process of constantly open immigration; that immigrants were not firmly and legally encouraged to assimilate and adopt American culture and language as soon as possible; that immigrants with physical or mental defects were welcomed to our shores; that there was no such thing as legal immigration.

We need to teach:

1) American immigration came in waves. Once the door was shut it was shut. You were not encouraged to break our immigration laws without penalty.

2) Bilingual education was enormously discouraged. Students were pushed to learn English as soon as possible. Adults who did not learn English were not given interpreters or encouraged to spend their whole lives completely ignorant of English. While pockets of other languages may have existed here and there the primary language of Americans has always been English.

3) Immigration was a sink or swim process. If you could not succeed here you were told firmly to get out and go home. There was no such thing as welfare. You were not permitted to be a public charge. One third of all Italian immigrants came here, could not succeed and left for their home country permanently.

4) America chose immigrants based on American needs. We let in immigrants when we felt we needed them. When we stopped needing them the door was shut. The goal was to meet American needs; not to serve as place where every poor person in the world could come here and seek their dreams.

We need to teach something more than the standard pap about immigration. We also need to implement laws that make sense. Yes, you must immigrate here legally. No, we are damned well not going to learn Spanish. Your inability to speak English is not an American taxpayer's problem to solve. No, you cannot get handouts from the United States government just because you snuck across the border without permission.

The goal of American immigration law must be to do what every nation does: to serve the needs of the American people. Not foreigners who want Americans to provide them with subsidies.

We're a very generous country. The only way we can continue to be generous is to have an immigration policy that serves our economic needs and allows to continue to be a place people actually want to live.

We need to do a better job teaching those facts to our children.
Excellent post. The problem is that our liberal, PC schools and teachers are painting a "warm and fuzzy" picture of immigration in general without teaching the downfalls of unlimited legal and illegal immigration. I guess it will have to be up to their parents to do it. Unfortunately too many American parents have been brainwashed into believing that any and all immigration is good also.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2010, 11:40 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,829,832 times
Reputation: 22174
Yes, this is a very good post. Schools have been twisting unlimited immigration as a positive thing when immigration was not unlimited in the past.

Suddenly schools went from warning of population explosions to pushing the idea that the USA needs millions more people who have sky high birth rates. No longer does the left pretend to care about the environment, the wildlife preserves or even farmland. We're to keep the borders wide open and take in all the many millions of poor throughout the world and give them a comfortable life here with all the material things they crave.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2010, 03:35 AM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,970,981 times
Reputation: 3084
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Yes, this is a very good post. Schools have been twisting unlimited immigration as a positive thing when immigration was not unlimited in the past.

Suddenly schools went from warning of population explosions to pushing the idea that the USA needs millions more people who have sky high birth rates. No longer does the left pretend to care about the environment, the wildlife preserves or even farmland. We're to keep the borders wide open and take in all the many millions of poor throughout the world and give them a comfortable life here with all the material things they crave.
But doesn't that just make you come over all warm and fuzzy like tho?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2010, 02:01 PM
 
40 posts, read 72,094 times
Reputation: 35
Default School is in session

Eleanora,

History, in its entirety, should be taught, not filtered, sanitized and glossed over with an artists fine brush strokes. As I wrote in another post:

“what is happening in the U.S.A. today is not that different than what happened on Plymouth Rock so long ago. The undocumented, therefore illegal, European aliens of 1620 believed in the old English legal proverb of- "possession being nine-tenths of the law" - meaning that possession constituted most of the legal claim to ownership. So, you see, nothing has changed since that unprecedented move. Immigrants are acting in the same manner as our “founding fathers” did so long ago. I guess great minds really do think alike!” Now there’s a lesson for ya.

It should also be taught to America’s next crop of the “best and brightest” about the American companies that set up shop south of the border exploiting workers and polluting their soil and water. On who’s doorstep do you suppose they end up on with their knapsacks and toothbrushes in hand?

How about a history lesson about how NAFTA has left thousands of Mexican without a job? Mexico does not need cheap Chinese junk. The corporate dominated U.S. only worry about the companies involved and their investors. It made certain U.S. corporate entities very happy and very rich. Let’s teach our children how both the US and Mexican governments have been working together to force Mexican farmers off their lands to force them into cities to work for US NAFTA companies for slave wages.

I would also love to teach the little kiddies about the Mexican land seizures of the past but then again why bother when we cannot debate what you won’t acknowledge. And most xenophobes are excellent at manipulating language when and how it suits them. You bury the bad press under cute layers of sanitized euphemisms, cherry picking and my personal favorite, the non-denial denial. Pretty cool stuff to have in your bag of tricks.

While you wish that our government would say no, they are saying yes. They say “no no no” with their lips to white America but they say “si si si” to immigrants with their eyes. And I don’t know about you but for a Latin person the right “come hither look” melts us like Monterrey jack on a hot taco.

Then you said: “America chose immigrants based on American needs…. not to serve as a place for the poor of the world to seek their dreams.” I totally agree with you. Once again though there is a divide in perception…your perception that is. Just because a certain percentage of people cannot figure out why immigrants have been allowed to be here does not mean that they are not wanted. It just means you've been left out of the loop.

Most of your post reads like Charlie Brown’s teachers “waa waa waa waa”, in one ear and sadly, for the teacher, out the other, in other words irrelevant. Would you like to know why Eleanora? Because the movers and shakers of this country have other plans. As my Irish daddy used to say “it matters not.” Meaning your opinions, or mine for that matter, DO NOT matter. You and those like you are “striving to catch the wind”. Got any other hobbies?… “catching moonbeams in a jar”? Good luck with that.

Are you by any chance a daughter of the Confederacy? A young southern belle pining away for the glory days of the “south will rise again” hooey? Dreaming of the day that you can sip your mint Julep, surfing the net in your hoop skirt, watching the darkies pick your cotton. It’s too late. Game over.

Yes, you must immigrate here legally. The problem is with your transparent hatred towards Hispanics. Quote: “No, we are damned well not going to learn Spanish.”, umm really?. It really makes you sound uneducated and painfully jingoistic and provincial at best. Most people on the planet are polyglots. To actually reject the learning of another language is ignorant to the extreme. Learning languages is one of the most complex things the human mind will undertake. Not only does it increase pathway of expression, abstract figures of speech and ideas, facilitate learning but also the etymology of the English language so as to become better communicators and to have a command of one’s own language.

Do you really expect for a person to learn another language in a matter of months? If you do you speak out of tremendous ignorance, extreme resentment to the foreign born, or both.

The smart American would be proactive. They should be learning Spanish in their cars on their way to their pilates classes. The economy is tough people. How many jobs can you afford to let pass by because you can’t say “Buenos dias, mi nombre es Bob Smith?” Any desperate housewives out there? Take a Latin lover, learn a new move or two…..I am talking dance moves here, get your minds out of the gutter you naughty gringos! Buy that chalupa maker for only $19.99 on that tv info-mercial. Mix and mingle. Mix and mingle. There is no sense lamenting what once was, focus on the future. The future that might include a Hispanic son-in-law, grandchild, boss, neighbor, dear God….maybe even a Presidente!!!!! Can’t you see the sheer beauty of it all??? History repeating itself, coinciding quite nicely. The illegal aliens of the 1600’s to today dovetailing in thougt and deeds with the Mexican car washers of 2010 Los Angeles. It makes me want to buy a coke….and teach the world to sing.

So you see, round and round the immigration wheel of fortune goes!….

Like I said in another post before “While very comical and entertaining, all of your impotent kicking and screaming is just that “impotent” kicking and screaming. And like all fussy crying babies what you all really need is to be fed, have your diapers changed and be put to bed....Oh yeah, and taught how to share and play nice.Leave Jose Blow veggie picker alone.

If Paris Hilton can own a chiguagua (That’s Hot.) then I think we should all be able to do our small part too.

“All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian.”
Pat Paulsen
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2010, 02:39 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,389,743 times
Reputation: 2345
Oh how cute.

Accusations of racism and demands that we learn Spanish.

I love this:

Hi,

We've moved across your border in violation of your laws. We don't speak English or have job skills. We don't pay much in taxes. Yeah there's a recession but we don't care.

Listen, you lazy Americans, we're here and you'd better get over it. We expect that you will learn Spanish, teach our kids in Spanish and make sure that we can get access to food stamps, subsidized housing and hospital care at your expense.

Remember we work bad jobs at low wages.

Nevermind we don't have the skills to do anything else. We're your grandparents. You OWE us, you racist creeps!

Love,

The 60% of all illegal migrants who are from Mexico

You're right. Most people are polygots. I myself speak several languages including English, Hebrew and French. People should learn another language. However the people making that argument should not be themselves only monolingual and living some place where that inexcusable choice creates all kinds of problems for the dominant society.

FYI, my people were not southern slave owners. My people were shetyl Jews. They learned English, contributed to this country financially and proudly embraced America. They taught me many things including patriotrism, gratitude and a sense that if you're going to move somewhere else you have responsibilities as well as rights.

They did not presume to demand that their fellow Americans learn Yiddish. They were not allowed to collect welfare, create anchor babies or come here without permission. They did not believe that American owed them a damned thing.

In short they were law abiding citizens who came here literally fleeing the death camps of Aushwitz that claimed a number of my relatives. Those who want to follow in their footsteps might do well to copy their choices. More importantly they might do well to copy their attitudes and behaviors.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2010, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,970,981 times
Reputation: 3084
I'm not about to quote your whole rant, but just let me say this - I am NOT "against hispanics" (from whichever country they hail), I am against those in this country ILLEGALLY (and again no matter from which country they hail) who are sucking up the resources provided for Americans and legal residents.

You can rewrite your version of "history" all you wish - as there was NO USA at the time and no immigration laws in force, Plymouth Rock and whatever points you draw there are moot.

Just for the record - I AM learning Spanish (because I WANT to, not because I feel forced to because lord knows spanish speakers can't learn english apparently), I can cook Mexican (and many other cuisines) quite well thank you - why gosh, I even shop at our local el mercado de pueblo on occasion - go figure (I happen to also like the Mexican coke with cane sugar) and practice my so far very basic espanol (btw they think my espanol with an Aussie accent is hysterical).

I think you're the one that shows yourself in a racist light with your talk of gringos etc etc...........but hey, that's just me. YMMV

Last edited by Opyelie; 09-29-2010 at 02:43 PM.. Reason: typos
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2010, 02:54 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,389,743 times
Reputation: 2345
FYI, I happen to think Spanish quite a lovely language. But the assertion that I should learn it (or teach it to my child) because a group of illegal migrants can't be bothered to learn English is, as my grandmother might have said, pure chutzpah.

Every country has immigration laws. Every single one including all the Spanish speaking nations of Latin America. Why are Americans the only ones not allowed to control their own agreed upon borders or determine who is and is not a citizen?

Every other nation does so. Every other nation deports people in violation of their immigration laws and sets up laws that state what immigrants must do in order to become a citizen. In most places (including the places where the majority of illegal migrants hail from) the laws are far stricter then they are in America.

Shall we dare teach that as well? Or is it too politically incorrect?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2010, 03:02 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,166,436 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by momobear71 View Post
Eleanora,

History, in its entirety, should be taught, not filtered, sanitized and glossed over with an artists fine brush strokes. As I wrote in another post:

“what is happening in the U.S.A. today is not that different than what happened on Plymouth Rock so long ago. The undocumented, therefore illegal, European aliens of 1620 believed in the old English legal proverb of- "possession being nine-tenths of the law" - meaning that possession constituted most of the legal claim to ownership. So, you see, nothing has changed since that unprecedented move. Immigrants are acting in the same manner as our “founding fathers” did so long ago. I guess great minds really do think alike!” Now there’s a lesson for ya.

It should also be taught to America’s next crop of the “best and brightest” about the American companies that set up shop south of the border exploiting workers and polluting their soil and water. On who’s doorstep do you suppose they end up on with their knapsacks and toothbrushes in hand?

How about a history lesson about how NAFTA has left thousands of Mexican without a job? Mexico does not need cheap Chinese junk. The corporate dominated U.S. only worry about the companies involved and their investors. It made certain U.S. corporate entities very happy and very rich. Let’s teach our children how both the US and Mexican governments have been working together to force Mexican farmers off their lands to force them into cities to work for US NAFTA companies for slave wages.

I would also love to teach the little kiddies about the Mexican land seizures of the past but then again why bother when we cannot debate what you won’t acknowledge. And most xenophobes are excellent at manipulating language when and how it suits them. You bury the bad press under cute layers of sanitized euphemisms, cherry picking and my personal favorite, the non-denial denial. Pretty cool stuff to have in your bag of tricks.

While you wish that our government would say no, they are saying yes. They say “no no no” with their lips to white America but they say “si si si” to immigrants with their eyes. And I don’t know about you but for a Latin person the right “come hither look” melts us like Monterrey jack on a hot taco.

Then you said: “America chose immigrants based on American needs…. not to serve as a place for the poor of the world to seek their dreams.” I totally agree with you. Once again though there is a divide in perception…your perception that is. Just because a certain percentage of people cannot figure out why immigrants have been allowed to be here does not mean that they are not wanted. It just means you've been left out of the loop.

Most of your post reads like Charlie Brown’s teachers “waa waa waa waa”, in one ear and sadly, for the teacher, out the other, in other words irrelevant. Would you like to know why Eleanora? Because the movers and shakers of this country have other plans. As my Irish daddy used to say “it matters not.” Meaning your opinions, or mine for that matter, DO NOT matter. You and those like you are “striving to catch the wind”. Got any other hobbies?… “catching moonbeams in a jar”? Good luck with that.

Are you by any chance a daughter of the Confederacy? A young southern belle pining away for the glory days of the “south will rise again” hooey? Dreaming of the day that you can sip your mint Julep, surfing the net in your hoop skirt, watching the darkies pick your cotton. It’s too late. Game over.

Yes, you must immigrate here legally. The problem is with your transparent hatred towards Hispanics. Quote: “No, we are damned well not going to learn Spanish.”, umm really?. It really makes you sound uneducated and painfully jingoistic and provincial at best. Most people on the planet are polyglots. To actually reject the learning of another language is ignorant to the extreme. Learning languages is one of the most complex things the human mind will undertake. Not only does it increase pathway of expression, abstract figures of speech and ideas, facilitate learning but also the etymology of the English language so as to become better communicators and to have a command of one’s own language.

Do you really expect for a person to learn another language in a matter of months? If you do you speak out of tremendous ignorance, extreme resentment to the foreign born, or both.

The smart American would be proactive. They should be learning Spanish in their cars on their way to their pilates classes. The economy is tough people. How many jobs can you afford to let pass by because you can’t say “Buenos dias, mi nombre es Bob Smith?” Any desperate housewives out there? Take a Latin lover, learn a new move or two…..I am talking dance moves here, get your minds out of the gutter you naughty gringos! Buy that chalupa maker for only $19.99 on that tv info-mercial. Mix and mingle. Mix and mingle. There is no sense lamenting what once was, focus on the future. The future that might include a Hispanic son-in-law, grandchild, boss, neighbor, dear God….maybe even a Presidente!!!!! Can’t you see the sheer beauty of it all??? History repeating itself, coinciding quite nicely. The illegal aliens of the 1600’s to today dovetailing in thougt and deeds with the Mexican car washers of 2010 Los Angeles. It makes me want to buy a coke….and teach the world to sing.

So you see, round and round the immigration wheel of fortune goes!….

Like I said in another post before “While very comical and entertaining, all of your impotent kicking and screaming is just that “impotent” kicking and screaming. And like all fussy crying babies what you all really need is to be fed, have your diapers changed and be put to bed....Oh yeah, and taught how to share and play nice.Leave Jose Blow veggie picker alone.

If Paris Hilton can own a chiguagua (That’s Hot.) then I think we should all be able to do our small part too.

“All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian.”
Pat Paulsen
There were no immigration laws back in the 1600's so no one was illegal who migrated here. Most of our ancestors came here through Ellis Island well after the U.S. was established as a country and well after any native indian conflicts. So they weren't illegal either.

NAFTA negatively impacted American jobs also not just Mexicans. Both countries signed it so both governments need to be held accountable for it and it needs to be repealed.

Most American are well aware of the past and do acknowledge it but so what? Mexico was paid 15 million dollars and forgiven many debts for certain southwest territories. Throughout history wars have been fought and lands have exchanged hands but that has nothing to do with those of us alive today. We aren't them and they aren't us. They are all dead now. If Mexico has a complaint about the past then why isn't the Mexican government taking it up with ours?

I guess when you say "immigrants" you must mean illegal aliens as we are getting use to the silly PC language of the left. The only ones who want illegal aliens here (not immigrants) are those who benefit from their cheap labor in direct violation of our laws. We regular, law abiding Americans should just roll over and accept that? "We" didn't ask them to come here.

Hatred towards Hispanics? Uh, Hispanics have the second highest quotas for legal immigration into our country. Only second to Asians. Where is the hatred and discrimination? We just object to the illegal kind. What does this reference to "darkies" picking our cotton have to do with illegal immigration?

If Americans want to learn another language that is their choice but why would we want to learn the langauge of the ethnic group who is invading our country by the millions? For what? If I personally wanted to learn another language it would be Mandarin or Tagalog. But then as the saying goes if you don't use it you lose it. Under most circumstances most English speaking Americans have no need to learn another language. Learning a trade makes more sense. Who are you to demonize any American for choosing to remain mono-lingual English speaking? The only reason that ads for employment are requesting bi-lingual English/Spanish is because of the millions of illegal alien Spanish speakers in this country. Most Hispanic Americans know how to speak English.

I don't know where you live but all ethnic groups are mixing these days and intermarrying all over this nation. So why are you implying that they aren't?

Now that I have responded to all of your rants consider yourself reported for your uncivility in this forum.

By the way, since you admitted you have an Irish father. I know exactly who you are. You gave yourself away. I think HB is a better place for you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2010, 08:21 PM
 
40 posts, read 72,094 times
Reputation: 35
Eleanora,

The Hispanic people I know are very patriotic. I am speaking of 2nd generation and beyond. I am not sure that any first generation person immigrant is “non” patriotic per se. It’s more a question of survival. When you have a family to support, work for sorry pay and are looking over your shoulder for the police, it does not leave a lot of time for formal education. And no, you don’t have to be an illegal to be mistreated by the police.

Every day legal immigrants are harassed and stripped of their papers. They are picked up by the police and being deported. There are thousands of American citizens being separated from their spouses & children in this way. It takes years to straighten out this mess. Many of them end up with their children being illegally adopted out in the interim.

This goes for the Arizona laws. The worry is for abuse and undue harassment. If you are legal show them your papers and be done with it I have heard. Sounds easy, until you walk down the street and get asked again by a different cop, etc.,etc. It’s like being pulled over for a never ending speeding ticket. Think back to the psychological impact of being stopped by a police officer. If you are honest you will admit it to be a little intimidating and uncomfortable, not something you want to go through everyday, especially if you were not speeding in the first place. That’s called unnecessary harassment, or is it “Ground Hog Day” the movie?

You said“FYI, my people were not southern slave owners”
Are you sure?The Jews were major players in the Dutch-Indies slave trade to the Americas.
You addressed education but I am sorry you can not compare the early and well structured network of education for immigrant Jews with the Hispanics in our modern day crumbling school systems. There was a whole class of Jewish philanthropy who helped sponsor their own. Plus many of them spoke German which a lot of English is derived from, makes a big difference.

“They did not believe that American owed them a damned thing”. I am sorry but I have to strongly disagree with that one. No time to get into it now though……

“who came here literally fleeing the death camps of Aushwitz that claimed a number of my relatives. Those who want to follow in their footsteps might do well to copy their choices. More importantly they might do well to copy their attitudes and behaviors.”
This isn’t a competition of who has suffered more than who. No people or group holds the patent on pain or injustices. You think a man or woman who leaves their kids to cross deserts, risks hypothermia, imprisonment, death, rape, illness and further exploitation does so out of something other than dire necessity?

Speaking of assimilation, have you ever watched the movie "Hester St"? Carol Cane plays the part of a Jewish woman who leaves Eastern Europe with her husband and her child. It perfectly portrays the struggle with and the link between total assimilation and cultural death. One of the best movies I’ve seen on the topic. They say you never know what you have until you lose it. It’s more like: You never know what you had until you forget you ever had it in the first place. That’s too high a price to pay for a hot dog and a hula hoop.

And as far as coming to this country legally, people from all over the planet have come here illegally, including Jewish people. It’s a well-known fact that many people who had money bought both real and false documents to save their lives. I do not blame them, it’s self-preservation. I’ve read many accounts of Jews having to flee into the hills of France, Spain, Portugal, not knowing where they were even going, only knowing that they had to go or risk death. They escaped anyway possible, with or without papers. There were also good, caring and compassionate souls who risked their own lives to help these Jews in need. There is no time for learning the language, proper verb conjugation, respecting property rights etc… Someone in a small village with not food and a sick child is in a similar boat.

You mentioned “ subsidized housing at USA expense.”
Funny you brought the point up of subsidized housing at out expense... I’d be more inclined to be upset over the U.S. spending billions of dollars building homes for people in Isreal. Talk about your outreach! BTW, I personally don’t mind but that’s a story for another day. But this brings the whole “land grabbing invaders” into more perspective doesn’t it? What gives them the right to Palestine? That was thousands of years ago, right? I’ll tell you what gives them the right…. the bonds of faith, national identity, history, a spiritual attachment not easily defined and much more. It’s something passed down from generation to generation. ‘‘Next year in Jerusalem” means something intrinsic, however you define it, even to a person who has never stepped on Isreali soil.

Mexico is also an ancient rich culture. And there will always be this feeling for the land, all of it. Nothing will ever change that. I do not truly expect you to understand, but I do suspect that you could understand on some level more than the average person. The United States is a baby as far as culture is concerned. There is no way they could ever understand the Mexican psyche. Most Mexicans, although outwardly catholic, adhere to many ideals of a worldview of ancient pre-Columbian times. These ancient views bind people, culture, religion, and their idea of the world and their national geography.
You saidEvery country has immigration laws. Every single one including all the Spanish speaking nations of Latin America. Why are Americans the only ones not allowed to control their own agreed upon borders or determine who is and is not a citizen?”Allow me to address this in a Middle Eastern framework. If I move to a part of Palestine that all of a sudden has a huge influx of Jews and it bothers me for this or that reason. I am failing to understand the long, ancient issues with these 2 groups of people. It may be an anomaly of sorts but it doesn’t negate the fact that it exists and probably always will. I am not trying to oversimplify it. It really is that simple. And for all the dismissive attitudes that most of my post has elicited my main point doesn’t really need me to defend it. It just is what it is.

You speak of the “dominant society”. That’s exactly my point. The only constant thing is change, including the “dominant society” model, yours or mine.

I can only speak for myself but if I ever came across another human being who needed a glass of water I would without hesitation give him that water, feed him and send him on his way with a few bucks in his pocket and a prayer. Why you might ask? Because I was raised to know my place in this world. That place being one in a line of many millions, no better, no more deserving than any other. And even if I knew this person had no legal right I would answer to the higher and ultimate authority that governs human rights.

The Jewish law called for the Jews to leave the perimeter of their crops for the foreigners, the poor, the weary travelers etc., it’s the common decent thing to do.

Not like a video I watched from a link on this site where a white woman was out in the desert taking the time to empty out the last few drops of hot water from a plastic jug. Her hatred was truly pathological. I felt sad for her. But if she needed a glass of water I’d give her one too. “The love of the greater number” has certainly cooled.


Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top