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Old 09-30-2010, 11:49 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,877,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
Actually the illegals get paid big wages here picking that lettuce compared to Mexico wages. A dollar goes along way there.


I remember in the mid sixties, a dollar was the minimum wage here. Today it is the same in Mexico as the sixties were here in America for the American worker.

For illegals to make minimum wage here is huge money for them= that is why they come here .

Plus they learn to work the system to get food stamps and housing.

Having a baby here gives them rights to all the freebees.

The illegals are abusing the system and they learn from each other how to advance to better jobs with illegal documents. Many are doing much better than the working Americans .

Many Americans have no job. This is a down and out scam the illegals are getting away with. The race card is played by the democrats as these illegals drain our system and the illegals say America Is Good and they probably think they are entitled by now.

KILL POLITICAL CORRECTNESS NOW OR IT WILL KILL AMERICA.VOTE THE BUMS OUT!
Yes - great wages IF THEY WERE IN MEXICO but of course that's not where the illegals are. Those wages don't even begin to support them or their large families living in the USA.

The cost of living in the USA is sky high, it's difficult for many college graduate couples to make ends meet on average type wages with health care benefits. Illegals are glad to work for less than legal wages and they think nothing of working AND taking all kinds of welfare handouts.

The elites love their taxpayer subsidized cheap labor and of course certain politicians love the votes.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Texas
23,888 posts, read 10,085,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Lettuce isn't cheap now by any stretch. It was much much cheaper before 30 million illegals moved in.
Inflation is driving prices up. That's what happens when you increase the money supply.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:21 AM
 
4,919 posts, read 19,197,423 times
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Hawaii use to produce almost all of US pineapples. There were no illegal immigrants for the farms to hire at low pay. When wage reform came to Hawaii and workers who were paid grossly substandard wages started to be paid plain substandard wages, the producers packed up shop and went overseas. How do you compete paying workers $3 an hour when overseas they can pay $3 a day for more work? Start checking your produce and see where it comes from, you'll be surprised how much former US produce comes from overseas. And it doesn't matter how much produce the US produces, it only matters who's produce end up on the shelf versus a compost heap. US lettuce producers are complaing that they are having a harder time selling their items to distributors. If they are having hard times finding buyers that would mean that there is no need to import lettuce, but ships arrive weekly with reefers full of Oceania or South Amercian lettuce and stores like WalMart are lining up to buy it.

Illegals should not be allowed to work in the US, but please don't think that if they dissappear those jobs will go to Americans. Those jobs will go overseas like many Amercian jobs.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:29 AM
 
Location: texas
155 posts, read 146,476 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Yes - great wages IF THEY WERE IN MEXICO but of course that's not where the illegals are. Those wages don't even begin to support them or their large families living in the USA.

The cost of living in the USA is sky high, it's difficult for many college graduate couples to make ends meet on average type wages with health care benefits. Illegals are glad to work for less than legal wages and they think nothing of working AND taking all kinds of welfare handouts.

The elites love their taxpayer subsidized cheap labor and of course certain politicians love the votes.

solution just raise wages like in japan when it comes to producing a metric ton of lettuce instead of costing the producer
425 dollars it would cost 1,008 dollars yeah
it would quickly solve the burden of having
visa workers, illegal workers but
seeing the statistics from
this site
U.S. Lettuce Statistics
in 1960 california produced 22,597,000 metric tons
in 1989 california produced 57,256,000 metric tons (highest peak)
in 2006 california produced 42,500,000 metri tons


whats causing such a downturn? simple supplly and demand if lettuce its getting expansive to produce, what would happen if
we paid higher wages to attract? domestic workers?

would the lettuce production stabilise to a point where california is producing 24 million metric tons or would it rather import from countries that have a cheaper labor force and where the american investors upgrade their farmland to make it just as efficient as a lettuce acre here in the usa?
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:46 AM
 
Location: texas
155 posts, read 146,476 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
Hawaii use to produce almost all of US pineapples. There were no illegal immigrants for the farms to hire at low pay. When wage reform came to Hawaii and workers who were paid grossly substandard wages started to be paid plain substandard wages, the producers packed up shop and went overseas. How do you compete paying workers $3 an hour when overseas they can pay $3 a day for more work? Start checking your produce and see where it comes from, you'll be surprised how much former US produce comes from overseas. And it doesn't matter how much produce the US produces, it only matters who's produce end up on the shelf versus a compost heap. US lettuce producers are complaing that they are having a harder time selling their items to distributors. If they are having hard times finding buyers that would mean that there is no need to import lettuce, but ships arrive weekly with reefers full of Oceania or South Amercian lettuce and stores like WalMart are lining up to buy it.

Illegals should not be allowed to work in the US, but please don't think that if they dissappear those jobs will go to Americans. Those jobs will go overseas like many Amercian jobs.
thats what I have been saying either we have a reform or simple depend on foreign goods which unbalances our trade deficit which last time I heard was 1.47 trillion dollars,

and thats what I love about this forums they complained that illegals cost the taxpayers 110 billion when
our trade defecit is 14 times the illegal problem
Cost of Illegal Immigrants | FactCheck.org
saying that illegals suppress wages by 200 billion dollars

if we simple get rid of them who is going to save business those 200 billion dollars? thats what made it suppress wages because companies are financed by the stock market (if they are giants in that industry which I dont doubt most farms in america are super farms")

its all about attracting investors and then paying dividends
and then we can start the whole fiasco once more

the ones that do pay fica taxes, the ones that do pay taxes, add the contribution in helping companies have bigger profits therefore attracting more investors, sales tax, property tax, sin tax,

therefore I come to my conclusion
I love my way of life if we dont have a reform, dont expect companies to give us a 10% raise or 15% raise,
because to them that would be like a slap on the face and it would be the breaking point for investors seeing that
those companies cannot offer the biggest dividends when it comes to investing their money

and hello china, mexico, brazil, india, south africa
you named it they would quickly welcome our investors
with open arms.
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:38 AM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,344,190 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Yes - great wages IF THEY WERE IN MEXICO but of course that's not where the illegals are. Those wages don't even begin to support them or their large families living in the USA.

The cost of living in the USA is sky high, it's difficult for many college graduate couples to make ends meet on average type wages with health care benefits. Illegals are glad to work for less than legal wages and they think nothing of working AND taking all kinds of welfare handouts.

The elites love their taxpayer subsidized cheap labor and of course certain politicians love the votes.

Very well stated, and most of us do know the politicians who love those votes don't we. Don't have to be a mind reader to figure that one out.
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:03 PM
 
1,162 posts, read 1,847,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBulletZ06 View Post
Cheap lettuce is a fallacious arguement. Only about 1% of illegals actually work in agriculture.
True, they've taken over construction, restaurant jobs, meat packing...what else?
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:18 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,877,424 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by inturbide1981 View Post

whats causing such a downturn? simple supplly and demand if lettuce its getting expansive to produce, what would happen if
we paid higher wages to attract? domestic workers?

would the lettuce production stabilise to a point where california is producing 24 million metric tons or would it rather import from countries that have a cheaper labor force and where the american investors upgrade their farmland to make it just as efficient as a lettuce acre here in the usa?
Imported food could be causing the downturn, or it could be loss of farmland in California - the population growth and urban sprawl - with cities merging into other cities and farm land being paved to build houses, shopping centers, and housing projects, schools and so on.

Illegals are self-defeating when you look at it. They claim they all come here to do farm work but the farm land is fast disappearing with millions of people pouring over the borders.

It would be better to import crops that require manual labor. That way these people could work where they already live, they can afford the cost of living in their own country but not in ours. They would create jobs for their fellow countrymen, and this would be stability than everyone abandoning their villages and families to live 3000 miles away from them.
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:34 PM
 
Location: texas
155 posts, read 146,476 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Imported food could be causing the downturn, or it could be loss of farmland in California - the population growth and urban sprawl - with cities merging into other cities and farm land being paved to build houses, shopping centers, and housing projects, schools and so on.

Illegals are self-defeating when you look at it. They claim they all come here to do farm work but the farm land is fast disappearing with millions of people pouring over the borders.

It would be better to import crops that require manual labor. That way these people could work where they already live, they can afford the cost of living in their own country but not in ours. They would create jobs for their fellow countrymen, and this would be stability than everyone abandoning their villages and families to live 3000 miles away from them.
clearly urban sprawl is out of the picture if you look at
table 56 on the usda link you would clearly see that
in 1979 they were 2,693 farms and 243,810 acres harvested regarding lett
and in 2002 they were 2,905 farms and 306,849 acres harvested

now if you really have the mentality that they should stay in their country and we import from them, trust me they dont have a problem with that
read that article about how the united states subsidies agriculture to the point that producing 5 crops is more expansive to produce than to import, so why is our federal goverment doing this?

In 1996, Congress finally enacted some pro-market agriculture reforms under the “Freedom to Farm” law. The law allowed farmers greater flexibility in their planting decisions and moved toward greater reliance on market supply and demand. However, the law did not end up cutting farm subsidies, as Congress expanded support in a series of large supplemental farm bills in the late 1990s. When the 1996 law was passed, subsidies were expected to cost $47 billion in total from 1996 to 2002, but ended up costing $121 billion.
The World Trade Organization estimates that even a one-third drop in all tariffs around the world would boost global output by $686 billion, including $164 billion for the United States.30 Trade liberalization would boost the exports of U.S. goods that are competitive on world markets, including many agricultural products, but U.S. farm subsidies and protections stand in the way of that goal.

you see that? one third drop in all tariffs here in the usa and in europe would boost global output by 686 billion.
NAFTA, by permitting heavily-subsidized US corn and other agri-business products to compete with small Mexican farmers, has driven the Mexican farmer off the land due to low-priced imports of US corn and other agricultural products. Some 2 million Mexicans have been forced out of agriculture, and many of those that remain are living in desperate poverty. These people are among those that cross the border to feed their families. (Meanwhile, corn-based tortilla prices climbed by 50%. No wonder many so Mexican peasants have called NAFTA their 'death warrant.'
A big reason that food products derived from corn are so pervasive in America's diet today is that for decades taxpayers have given corn growers incentives to grow as much as possible through the skewed federal farm subsidy system. The $73.8 billion lavished on corn since 1995 has helped to churn out a host of cheap and unhealthy foods -- from chips to sugary sodas to high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS).

bottom line, lets stop giving incentives to farmers who are over productive and in reality they are unprofitable and costing taxpayers money and let
countries who have a lot of their workforce working in agriculture do it.'
again all I see is corruption on both sides
when clinton sat with salinas in 94 to sign the free trade agreement I can assure you that clinton said, I will dump cheap corn for th 72 million mexicans that buy from corn producers and you send me your farmers to
american farmlands where they would be more profitable for my giant
agribusiness and for your folks.
Corn subsidies make unhealthy food choices the rational ones | Grist
Immigration Flood Unleashed by NAFTA's Disastrous Impact on Mexican Economy
Is a 40 hour-week magical? and GOP's $20.9b question - Daily Times Herald - Carroll, Iowa
NAFTA needs to expand to level playing field | statesmanjournal.com | Statesman Journal
U.S. Lettuce Statistics
Agricultural Subsidies | Downsizing the Federal Government
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Old 10-02-2010, 12:38 AM
 
4,919 posts, read 19,197,423 times
Reputation: 6171
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
It would be better to import crops that require manual labor. That way these people could work where they already live,
And when US goods production is shipped overseas, it's not just the field workers jobs being lost. When conatner ships arrive with foreign produce, seldom is it just containers of harvested products. More and more its ready for the shelf. That means the company in Kansas that makes the plastic film, the company in Oregon that makes the paper packages, the company in Utah that makes the plastic trays, the company in Texas that makes the food grade labels, and the company in Ca that packages the goods are all no longer in the picture. One by one, the need for amaerican workers accross many industry goes away.

20 years ag we use to fly emergency parts from a US manufacture to asia. All those american made machines needed amaerican made replacement parts. Today we still get shipments from them, but now its in reverse. The parts are being sent to the US since their production line and those few hundred jobs, shifted to the Phillipines.
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