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Old 10-02-2010, 09:05 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 59,152,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
And when US goods production is shipped overseas, it's not just the field workers jobs being lost. When conatner ships arrive with foreign produce, seldom is it just containers of harvested products. More and more its ready for the shelf. That means the company in Kansas that makes the plastic film, the company in Oregon that makes the paper packages, the company in Utah that makes the plastic trays, the company in Texas that makes the food grade labels, and the company in Ca that packages the goods are all no longer in the picture. One by one, the need for amaerican workers accross many industry goes away.

20 years ag we use to fly emergency parts from a US manufacture to asia. All those american made machines needed amaerican made replacement parts. Today we still get shipments from them, but now its in reverse. The parts are being sent to the US since their production line and those few hundred jobs, shifted to the Phillipines.
And when the farms are all plowed under and paved for the needed housing projects to accomodate all the millions of new arrivals, the field worker jobs are gone and all those plastic film jobs will be lost.

We simply cannot accomodate all the 2 billion impoverished of the world. Agricultural jobs are on the decline - there are fewer than 2 million of these jobs, the loss of farmland in the USA is substantial as the housing developers which also employ mostly illegals and not citizens buy up prime land with which to build the subdivisions and housing projects and malls.

Fewer than a million illegals work in agriculture. Most estimates give about 500,000 only and they certainly don't need to be replenished at the rate of 2 million a year.
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Old 10-02-2010, 09:07 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,236,770 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
And when the farms are all plowed under and paved for the needed housing projects to accomodate all the millions of new arrivals, the field worker jobs are gone and all those plastic film jobs will be lost.

We simply cannot accomodate all the 2 billion impoverished of the world. Agricultural jobs are on the decline - there are fewer than 2 million of these jobs, the loss of farmland in the USA is substantial as the housing developers which also employ mostly illegals and not citizens buy up prime land with which to build the subdivisions and housing projects and malls.

Fewer than a million illegals work in agriculture. Most estimates give about 500,000 only and they certainly don't need to be replenished at the rate of 2 million a year.
Excellent post.
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Old 10-02-2010, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 19,023,367 times
Reputation: 6518
Of course this is all based on the assumption that cost savings are passed on to the consumer. Why would the employers of illegals pass on these savings? Not when its an industry standard.( based on what pro-illegals claim) Its a case of greed. We can be like Japan who actually protects their farmers. We can limit imports on farm goods and in fact should be doing just that. I for 1 do not believe for a second that any employer of illegals is passing on savings to the consumer. They pocket the savings and are laughing all the way to the bank.
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:04 PM
 
1,150 posts, read 998,058 times
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<< I for 1 do not believe for a second that any employer of illegals is passing on savings to the consumer.>>

You've got that right. Has anyone noticed the price of food going down since we've acquired millions of illegal aliens?
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:52 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 36,167,730 times
Reputation: 12733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
.......................

For illegals to make minimum wage here is huge money for them= that is why they come here .

Plus they learn to work the system to get food stamps and housing.


Having a baby here gives them rights to all the freebees.


The illegals are abusing the system and they learn from each other how to advance to better jobs with illegal documents. Many are doing much better than the working Americans .


Many Americans have no job. This is a down and out scam the illegals are getting away with. The race card is played by the democrats as these illegals drain our system and the illegals say America Is Good and they probably think they are entitled by now.

KILL POLITICAL CORRECTNESS NOW OR IT WILL KILL AMERICA.VOTE THE BUMS OUT!

^^^^^^^^ Worth repeating! ^^^^^^^^^^
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Old 10-02-2010, 10:08 PM
 
12,148 posts, read 6,731,595 times
Reputation: 11675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
Actually the illegals get paid big wages here picking that lettuce compared to Mexico wages. A dollar goes along way there.


I remember in the mid sixties, a dollar was the minimum wage here. Today it is the same in Mexico as the sixties were here in America for the American worker.

For illegals to make minimum wage here is huge money for them= that is why they come here .

Plus they learn to work the system to get food stamps and housing.

Having a baby here gives them rights to all the freebees.

The illegals are abusing the system and they learn from each other how to advance to better jobs with illegal documents. Many are doing much better than the working Americans .

Many Americans have no job. This is a down and out scam the illegals are getting away with. The race card is played by the democrats as these illegals drain our system and the illegals say America Is Good and they probably think they are entitled by now.

KILL POLITICAL CORRECTNESS NOW OR IT WILL KILL AMERICA.VOTE THE BUMS OUT!
Good post.
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Old 10-02-2010, 10:34 PM
 
Location: texas
155 posts, read 147,184 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
And when the farms are all plowed under and paved for the needed housing projects to accomodate all the millions of new arrivals, the field worker jobs are gone and all those plastic film jobs will be lost.

We simply cannot accomodate all the 2 billion impoverished of the world. Agricultural jobs are on the decline - there are fewer than 2 million of these jobs, the loss of farmland in the USA is substantial as the housing developers which also employ mostly illegals and not citizens buy up prime land with which to build the subdivisions and housing projects and malls.

Fewer than a million illegals work in agriculture. Most estimates give about 500,000 only and they certainly don't need to be replenished at the rate of 2 million a year.
l

look I find your responses quite amazing, for some time now. youre right, I think that sometimes you have to understand the root of the problem to really understand the problem,

what most anti illegals here claim is that they are destroying
our ecosystem here and stuff in other words tree huggers, lol
ok all of you are right, absolutely right,
illegals and and simple just thinking that we cant fit 2 billion people here in the states is a scary thought.

I just hope that u can some day understand supply and demand, if you dont understand that. then simply youre not going to understand how economics work,

bottom line america is used to power, china, russia, economic blocks,
islam, latin america, you named it , they are all subjects to be concern about, and at the end all of those subjects are integrated into a niche, thats right a niche, something that happens in ecuador, or thailand
could end up effecting here, were a big market our countries decisions is highly praise around the world one embargo means the destruction of a little countries being,

america is about power...power...power....and lol...
I swear I cant finish MY #$%%# thought, simply
live life if youre a hater is because simple youre not getting a piece of the pie....THATS how I see life, what I DO what you do, is not going to change NOTHING, we can assume we can change the world
but the world like tha animal world, the beast world, the insect world, the germ world, is ruled by the strong and the strong feeds of the weak.
and thats how the world is run, the only way
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Old 10-03-2010, 03:30 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 59,152,896 times
Reputation: 22182
Quote:
Originally Posted by inturbide1981 View Post
l

look I find your responses quite amazing, for some time now. youre right, I think that sometimes you have to understand the root of the problem to really understand the problem,

what most anti illegals here claim is that they are destroying
our ecosystem here and stuff in other words tree huggers, lol
ok all of you are right, absolutely right,
illegals and and simple just thinking that we cant fit 2 billion people here in the states is a scary thought.

I just hope that u can some day understand supply and demand, if you dont understand that. then simply youre not going to understand how economics work,

bottom line america is used to power, china, russia, economic blocks,
islam, latin america, you named it , they are all subjects to be concern about, and at the end all of those subjects are integrated into a niche, thats right a niche, something that happens in ecuador, or thailand
could end up effecting here, were a big market our countries decisions is highly praise around the world one embargo means the destruction of a little countries being,

america is about power...power...power....and lol...
I swear I cant finish MY #$%%# thought, simply
live life if youre a hater is because simple youre not getting a piece of the pie....THATS how I see life, what I DO what you do, is not going to change NOTHING, we can assume we can change the world
but the world like tha animal world, the beast world, the insect world, the germ world, is ruled by the strong and the strong feeds of the weak.
and thats how the world is run, the only way
I do understand supply and demand.

In the USA like most countries, wages are normally controlled by supply and demand. With a limited supply of workers, employers must compete - even for low-skilled workers. That's what drives up wages. That's how wages in the USA rose to decent enough levels at one time - where factory workers could support families (and back then more than 1 or 2 kids) and usually just one wage earner in the family. Besides wages, businesses would offer job benefits like health insurance, better working conditions.

Now those in power - the corporations and elites want to disrupt the normal supply and demand - they drive down wages by making their supply of labor unlimited. They want a desperately poor labor force and they don't want to have to compete for labor. They want illegals because illegals don't expect any job benefits like overtime pay or health insurance and will work for dirt pay.

The bleeding hearts have their own reasons. They feel sorry for all the poor of the world and want to take them all in and have the taxpayers here provide them all a nice comfortable life here in the USA. The bleeding hearts think it's too mean to say that people in other countries should work for social change and build their own countries up - that's too hard, so just bring all the poor to the USA for their better life.

The truth is - there are no caps on H2A visas - the visas for legal temporary guest workers which is ideal for agricultural workers who may be needed for only a season of 3-4 months. That means there is no excuse at all like lettuce to bring in 30 million illegals. There are fewer than 2 million total agricultural jobs and agricultural jobs are on the decline, not all farmworkers are here illegally - it's estimated that 25% of farmworkers are illegal. That means up to 500,000 illegals do farmwork so what brings the other 29.5 million?
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Old 10-03-2010, 01:28 PM
 
Location: texas
155 posts, read 147,184 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I do understand supply and demand.

In the USA like most countries, wages are normally controlled by supply and demand. With a limited supply of workers, employers must compete - even for low-skilled workers. That's what drives up wages. That's how wages in the USA rose to decent enough levels at one time - where factory workers could support families (and back then more than 1 or 2 kids) and usually just one wage earner in the family. Besides wages, businesses would offer job benefits like health insurance, better working conditions.

Now those in power - the corporations and elites want to disrupt the normal supply and demand - they drive down wages by making their supply of labor unlimited. They want a desperately poor labor force and they don't want to have to compete for labor. They want illegals because illegals don't expect any job benefits like overtime pay or health insurance and will work for dirt pay. see thats my problem, you do understand it very well, theres no reconquista, theres no secret plan to destroy america, all of that are just ways were we the non elite think, and thats how the elite wants us to think, divide and conquer, illegal labor is a problem, a problem we can solve easily COMPARE TO THE PROBLEM OF CHANGING OUR ELITE GROUP thats the problem, illegals are 1% of the problem, compare to what i would mean replacing the ones in power, if you would know about the americas labor movement and how the true capitalist that made this country work did not really respect workers rights and have made the ones with capital, the investors the bussiness men, made them more humane, IT WASNT THEIR WILL TO BE HUMANE TO THEIR WORKERS
bottom line as humans were rule by greed, and we cannot control it,
you might think you do, but you and me know that its a constant struggle
and as you can see all the acts below
Railway Labor Act
Norris-LaGuardia Act
National Recovery Act (NRA
National Labor Relations Act (Wagner Act),
Walsh-Healey Act
Fair Labor Standards Act
Smith-Connally Act
The Taft-Hartley Act
Management Reporting and Disclosure Act
Equal Pay Act.
The Age Discrimination in Employment Act
Family and Medical leave Act
why do we need laws to protect our workers? arent we programmed to be humane from the get go? no as you can see your grandpa tried to eredicate it, as well as your father and what have they accomplish?
--------"silence", nothing, true capitalism is about explotation which is fine, because when business make money we all benefit with newer technologies and massive social programs.
U.S. Labor History Timeline
The bleeding hearts have their own reasons. They feel sorry for all the poor of the world and want to take them all in and have the taxpayers here provide them all a nice comfortable life here in the USA. The bleeding hearts think it's too mean to say that people in other countries should work for social change and build their own countries up - that's too hard, so just bring all the poor to the USA for their better life. see hold that thought for a second? if theres no businees theres no money right? no jobs no workers right?

The truth is - there are no caps on H2A visas - the visas for legal temporary guest workers which is ideal for agricultural workers who may be needed for only a season of 3-4 months. That means there is no excuse at all like lettuce to bring in 30 million illegals. There are fewer than 2 million total agricultural jobs and agricultural jobs are on the decline, not all farmworkers are here illegally - it's estimated that 25% of farmworkers are illegal. That means up to 500,000 illegals do farmwork so what brings the other 29.5 million?
there is an excuse
H-2A Visa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
*Employers anticipating a shortage of agricultural workers and in need must apply at least 45 days before certification is necessary. This includes a requirement of an active effort, including newspaper and radio advertising, to recruit U.S. workers in areas of expected labor supply. Such recruitment must be at least equivalent to that conducted by non-H-2A agricultural employers in the same or similar crops and area. The employer must agree to give preference and engage in active recruitment of U.S. workers. "OTHER WORDS PAPERWORK" YOU WOULD HAVE TO EMPLOY SOMEONE TO ADMISTER ALL THAT INFORMATION
*In employing a worker, the employer must guarantee to offer each worker employment for at least three-fourths of the workdays in the term of the contract period. If the employer affords less employment, then the employer is obligated to pay the amount which they would have earned if they had worked the contracted period. "no way jose,"
*The wage or rate of pay must be the same for U.S. workers and H-2A workers. The hourly rate must also be at least as high as the applicable Adverse Effect Wage Rate (AEWR),[5] federal or state minimum wage, or the applicable prevailing hourly wage rate, whichever is higher
*The employer must provide free housing to all workers who are not reasonably able to return to their homes or residences the same day. Such housing must be inspected and approved according to appropriate standards. The housing provided by the employer must meet all of the Department of Labor Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) standards that were set forth at CFR 1910.142 or the full set of standards at 654.404-645.417.[7]
*The employer must either provide three meals a day to each of the workers or furnish free and convenient cooking and kitchen for workers to prepare and cook their own meals. If the employer provides the meals, then the employer has the right to charge each worker a certain amount per day for the three meals.[9]
*
There are several provisions on the transportation of workers. The amount of transportation payment shall be no less (and shall not be required to be more) than the most economical and reasonably similar to the transportation charges for the distances involved.[6] The employer is responsible for several forms of transportation depending on the situation. After the worker completes at least half of the work contract period, the employer must reimburse the worker for the costs of transportation and subsistence from the place of recruitment to the place of work if these expenses were charged to the worker. The employer must provide free transportation to the worker between the employer's housing and the area of work. And upon completion of the work contract, the employer must pay the costs of a worker's subsistence and transportation back to the place of recruitment. Some special conditions apply when the worker does not return to the area of recruitment because they are moving to another job. If the employer compensates foreign workers for transportation costs then they must do so for US workers as well. If the employer provides transportation for foreign workers, they must provide transportation to US workers as well.
The employer must cover the cost of tools and supplies necessary to carry out the work at no cost to the worker, unless this is uncommon and the occupation calls for the worker to provide certain items.

you see all that? its call to much paperwork, money, in america its all about profits and you know who pushes that? you know who makes
these investors into such beast? WE THE CONSUMER, we want it cheap,
no matter what,
we can preach about how an UTOPIAN WORLD you would want, but that utopian world doesnt exists.
FLOC opens campaign against Chase bank
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Old 10-03-2010, 01:39 PM
 
Location: texas
155 posts, read 147,184 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I do understand supply and demand.

In the USA like most countries, wages are normally controlled by supply and demand. With a limited supply of workers, employers must compete - even for low-skilled workers. That's what drives up wages. That's how wages in the USA rose to decent enough levels at one time - where factory workers could support families (and back then more than 1 or 2 kids) and usually just one wage earner in the family. Besides wages, businesses would offer job benefits like health insurance, better working conditions.

Now those in power - the corporations and elites want to disrupt the normal supply and demand - they drive down wages by making their supply of labor unlimited. They want a desperately poor labor force and they don't want to have to compete for labor. They want illegals because illegals don't expect any job benefits like overtime pay or health insurance and will work for dirt pay.

The bleeding hearts have their own reasons. They feel sorry for all the poor of the world and want to take them all in and have the taxpayers here provide them all a nice comfortable life here in the USA. The bleeding hearts think it's too mean to say that people in other countries should work for social change and build their own countries up - that's too hard, so just bring all the poor to the USA for their better life.

The truth is - there are no caps on H2A visas - the visas for legal temporary guest workers which is ideal for agricultural workers who may be needed for only a season of 3-4 months. That means there is no excuse at all like lettuce to bring in 30 million illegals. There are fewer than 2 million total agricultural jobs and agricultural jobs are on the decline, not all farmworkers are here illegally - it's estimated that 25% of farmworkers are illegal. That means up to 500,000 illegals do farmwork so what brings the other 29.5 million?
'

from this article alone
FLOC opens campaign against Chase bank
For years farmworkers have fought for the most basic improvements in the slave-like working conditions in tobacco fields. The mostly immigrant workforce faces long hours stooping under the hot sun, intense racism, extremely low wages, deplorable housing, and numerous health and safety hazards, among many other terrible working conditions. Reynolds rakes in annual profit of more than $2 billion extracted directly from the super-exploitation of those who labor in the fields.

digest that paragraph for a second.
done?
ok, according to you, those farmers are being exploited because maybe their illegals and they deserve it right? but tell me this from the start, arent we those human people that our labor movement has given us
thru till now? why doesnt the federal goverment solve it by instantly giving them those h2A visas?

because is explotation, and banks love it, consumers love it, everybody loves it, if we go and really see
what neoliberalism is doing to the world you would think diffrently

all the world is our slaves they work for nearly nothing, you might say well why dont they fix it, I am just saying that when they do, they lose the investors and go hungry again.

2billion dollars from this article alone, now the maquiladors in mexico, el salvador, honduras, sweath shops in thailand, indonesia, china,
we simple cannot cry about how the world has turn out, when we are the main winners in all these,

thats why I preach and preach, that illegals are not the problem to americas solution, our solution is to bring a wave back in making
business more respectful to the their employees thats all.
but guess what, some of them call that socialism or distributing wealth unjustly, and we start all over again,
a disruption to keep us occupy and really never solve the true issues that effect the root of this country
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