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Old 09-01-2006, 05:04 AM
 
1,104 posts, read 3,059,201 times
Reputation: 571

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My point about the immigration laws in Mexico is that they wouldn't allow this to happen either.
My point about the job here--just 3 years ago all the business in our small town square was done completely in English. All of our signs in town were English. Now everything is bilingual. It wouldn't bother you if several million Russians came to Mexico and suddenly you were expected to speak their language instead of them learning yours? It wouldn't bother you that they felt they had the right to change everything where you live--where you were born and raised? If I decided to make France my home I would certainly expect that I would have to learn French and follow the laws of France.
Yes, elfyum, Americans have in the past become one voice to get the politicians to listen and we must do it again. I'm checking everyones voting records and only voting for candidates that understand and are willing to take a stand on this issue. I'll check out that website. Thanks.
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Old 09-01-2006, 06:09 AM
 
Location: New York City
104 posts, read 352,884 times
Reputation: 35
Immigration isn't about national security, it's not about losing American jobs, and it's not about racism. It's not about Mexicans, Italians, Germans, or any other race. It's about money! No matter the race, no matter the country of origin, immigration is about money.

I pay property taxes, I pay for schools, I pay for medical coverage, I pay to live in America. Illegal immigrants get the same things without having to pay for them. But someone has to pay for the free schooling, medical, etc. that illegals are getting. It's the U.S. citizens who pay. So, in addition to what I already pay for myself, I have to pay for someone else too.

While eating in a restaurant, would you allow a stranger to sit down at your table, eat his meal, drink his wine, and then leave you to pay for his part of the bill? Fuc* no!

How about we all just stop paying. If they don't have to pay, then why should I?

Illegals want to protest? Let's do the same. Let's take a day off from work to protest. What will our government do when the middle class doesn't show up?

Last edited by New_Yorker; 09-01-2006 at 06:29 AM..
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Old 09-01-2006, 07:35 AM
 
9,716 posts, read 12,945,002 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by gringo istmeño View Post
Do a lot of companies hire ESL teachers for their workers?
Not that I know of. A lot of them could benefit from it if they did.
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Old 09-01-2006, 07:47 AM
 
311 posts, read 549,596 times
Reputation: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by New_Yorker View Post
Immigration isn't about national security, it's not about losing American jobs, and it's not about racism. It's not about Mexicans, Italians, Germans, or any other race. It's about money! No matter the race, no matter the country of origin, immigration is about money.

I pay property taxes, I pay for schools, I pay for medical coverage, I pay to live in America. Illegal immigrants get the same things without having to pay for them. But someone has to pay for the free schooling, medical, etc. that illegals are getting. It's the U.S. citizens who pay. So, in addition to what I already pay for myself, I have to pay for someone else too.

While eating in a restaurant, would you allow a stranger to sit down at your table, eat his meal, drink his wine, and then leave you to pay for his part of the bill? Fuc* no!

How about we all just stop paying. If they don't have to pay, then why should I?

Illegals want to protest? Let's do the same. Let's take a day off from work to protest. What will our government do when the middle class doesn't show up?
I would like to see that done! My husband and I took a day off from work to protest a tax hike here in NC...unfortunately not enough people showed up (only about 1500) because lots of people have the idea it wouldn't help. So far the supporters of "illegals" have shown how they feel. Now is the time and I would gladly take part. You can bet I DO know who will not get my vote in the upcoming election.

elfum, Pat Buchanan has a great book....I am looking forward to reading it. Thanks for the reminder about his show.
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Old 09-01-2006, 07:55 AM
 
9,716 posts, read 12,945,002 times
Reputation: 3315
If people really want to get rid of illegals, tougher laws need to be passed against employers who hire these people. And we all need to be prepared to pay much much more for products and services we get.

Using the company I worked at as an example: Not many English speaking Americans want to work manditory 80-hour work weeks in a job that offers repetitive motion injuries on a regular basis. And once those injuries set in, anyone who is legal will sue for Worker's Comp. Illegals don't sue because they can't and they'll gladly sign up for an 80-hour work week to get the extra money. These jobs pay minimum wage to $10 an hour. Anyone legal who can speak English would much rather get a nice clean job, say selling clothes at the Mall. Anyone who says that American's would gladly take these jobs has never worked at one. We're talking assembly line positions where you spend 12 hours a day taking items off a conveyor belt at the rate of 30,000 items an hour (while counting them and sorting out the defectives at the same time).

The way the autoworkers managed to hire so many legal Americans is that they offered $30+ an hour. Most of these manufacturing jobs are similar to those autoworker jobs -- boring, long hours, repetitive. If we start valuing these "grunge" jobs the same way we value plumbers, autoworkers, electricians, etc., we will be paying a lot more for almost everything we make or produce here.

Politicians know this stuff. That's why they give lip service to immigration but they will never do anything about it. Most business owners would suffer if the laws changed. This is why GWB keeps talking about a "guest worker" program. The business people supporting the Republican party don't want the laws to change.
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:41 AM
 
Location: New York City
104 posts, read 352,884 times
Reputation: 35
What most people don't know is that there is already a guest worker program. It was supposed make things better, but it made things worse; more illegal immigrants. Now Bush wants to enact another guest worker program. That is the worst thing that can be done.

I say it's time to remove some U.S. troops from other countries, and put them on the U.S. borders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
If people really want to get rid of illegals, tougher laws need to be passed against employers who hire these people. And we all need to be prepared to pay much much more for products and services we get.

Using the company I worked at as an example: Not many English speaking Americans want to work manditory 80-hour work weeks in a job that offers repetitive motion injuries on a regular basis. And once those injuries set in, anyone who is legal will sue for Worker's Comp. Illegals don't sue because they can't and they'll gladly sign up for an 80-hour work week to get the extra money. These jobs pay minimum wage to $10 an hour. Anyone legal who can speak English would much rather get a nice clean job, say selling clothes at the Mall. Anyone who says that American's would gladly take these jobs has never worked at one. We're talking assembly line positions where you spend 12 hours a day taking items off a conveyor belt at the rate of 30,000 items an hour (while counting them and sorting out the defectives at the same time).

The way the autoworkers managed to hire so many legal Americans is that they offered $30+ an hour. Most of these manufacturing jobs are similar to those autoworker jobs -- boring, long hours, repetitive. If we start valuing these "grunge" jobs the same way we value plumbers, autoworkers, electricians, etc., we will be paying a lot more for almost everything we make or produce here.

Politicians know this stuff. That's why they give lip service to immigration but they will never do anything about it. Most business owners would suffer if the laws changed. This is why GWB keeps talking about a "guest worker" program. The business people supporting the Republican party don't want the laws to change.
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:50 AM
 
9,716 posts, read 12,945,002 times
Reputation: 3315
The only way to stop illegals from moving here is to stop companies from hiring them. That's the only thing that's going to work.

The way it stands now, even if laws are passed to prohibit hiring illegals, the government makes it hard to check people's status. Again, this is the "lip service" politicians can give voters. "Yeah, we're doing everything we *can* to stop illegal immigration." Right.

I heard something the other day about people even "buying" illegals to work on farms. Buying them just like old time slavery.
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Old 09-01-2006, 09:13 AM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,020,170 times
Reputation: 1788
So we're all in accord, despite assorted avenues of philosophies: illegal immigration is, even by innate definition, wrong, and its wrongness has gone absolutely haywire in America. 'Works for me!

I 'm going to add something to elfyum's reference to Buchanan. He's a bit much sometimes...It would be far more helpful to suggest a more moderate individual with similar conclusions, one with whom more people could identify. I would introduce people to the most unhysterical, open-minded, historically accurate, compassionate essays on the subject that still addresses the magnitude of the problem of illegal immigration and its stonewall-resistance to assimilation into American education and values, a book by Cal State Fresno professor Victor Davis Hanson. If its title Mexifornia gets deleted here, google the author's name and hone in on the title of the book most on topic to this. I would even recommend this to our educator gringo istemeno, as its intelligent discourse on the opposite side of his thinking would never in a million years come off as insulting anyone, and is the best unhysterical codification of the point of view of my first paragraph here.
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Old 09-01-2006, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Denver
692 posts, read 2,372,918 times
Reputation: 364
I feel a mob mentality coming on.
To bad it is not directed entirely in the right direction.
You know who ends up being victimized by actions based
from simmering pool of resentment. The easy targets.
Who has the stones to pull out the roots.
Follow the road back to see how we got here.
Anyway, now that the same soulless mother sellers are offshoreing
many of the jobs immigrants were back doored here to do in the first
place, it is going to get even nastier. Couple that with other ineffective
policy's by a puppet administration,and say goodbye to the American way.

As a Cub fan all I can say is wait until next election.
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Old 09-01-2006, 09:34 AM
 
Location: New York City
104 posts, read 352,884 times
Reputation: 35
It is going in the right direction.

We're all paying for illegal immigrants. They live here for free, while we have to pay for them. It couldn't be any clearer.

How about 40 million Americans show up in Mexico City, and live for free off Mexicans. Let's see how they like it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dancocal View Post
I feel a mob mentality coming on.
To bad it is not directed entirely in the right direction.
You know who ends up being victimized by actions based
from simmering pool of resentment. The easy targets.
Who has the stones to pull out the roots.
Follow the road back to see how we got here.
Anyway, now that the same soulless mother sellers are offshoreing
many of the jobs immigrants were back doored here to do in the first
place, it is going to get even nastier. Couple that with other ineffective
policy's by a puppet administration,and say goodbye to the American way.

As a Cub fan all I can say is wait until next election.
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