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Old 08-25-2006, 11:53 AM
 
625 posts, read 2,222,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gringo istmeño View Post
Sparky- I am from California, but have been living in Oaxaca for 6 years now. The southern border policy seems about the same- if they catch you, they deport you. If not, well, the immigrants that come through Mexico are usually just passing through, so.....
Oh, come on...does ICE beat, rob, and rape immigrants coming across the southern borders like the police/military in Mexico do?

BTW--you still haven't acknowledged the fact that illegal immigrants in Mexico are considered felons, yet listening to them cry and moan about ANY criminalization in this country smacks as more than a little hypocritcal.

Why is it "El Presidente" Fox has the audacity to lecture us about OUR immigration policies and call for open borders IN OUR COUNTRY TO OUR CITIZENS while ANYONE (American or otherwise) has to jump through what seems like a million hoops to get a work visa, etc, in Mexico?

Physician, heal thyself.
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Old 08-25-2006, 06:01 PM
 
Location: huatulco, oaxaca, mexico
231 posts, read 464,834 times
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I know I will ruffle some feathers with this one, and maybe it is just me, but I hear a lot more about mexicans dying going into the states than the rapes/murders/beatings of central/south Americans coming into Mex. Again, maybe I just haven`t heard, maybe things like that are covered up, being that I live fairly close to the Guatamalan border- but I just haven`t heard about any these cases- doesn`t really make the news down here. I also haven`t heard of citizens forming militia groups to keep foreigners out.
and about the hypocracy of Mexicans in the US crying about criminalization while the Mexican government considers illegal immigrants felons- why, yes, it is a hypocracy, never said it wasn`t. In fact, I said Mexico is the king of double-standards. No argument here- another example- why is it so easy for Americans to come and get visas and work permits (yeah, it is super easy for Americans and Canadians to get work VISAS here- trust me, way easier than for Mexicans to get it in the states) It is also very easy for Americans to be illegal in Mexico, I know plenty of those, too.
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Old 08-25-2006, 07:10 PM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,032,210 times
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Two wrongs don't make a right, r.e. your last two sentences.

And we also hear about people dying while robbing banks and committing other crimes that affect citizens here. I believe most people here do not agree with the "p.c. party line" that excuses this lawlessness. It's just too obvious that the lawlessness continues unchecked once they sneak in. It's equally obvious to me that the ivory tower p.c. party line people have never lived among foreign national lawbreakers here either.

You live close to the Guatemalan border and encounter no militias? The Guatemalans I've met are terrified of them, claiming Latin America is militia central of the world. Their relatives are always "disappearing." (euphemism.)
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Old 08-25-2006, 07:33 PM
 
Location: huatulco, oaxaca, mexico
231 posts, read 464,834 times
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actually, I was talking about citizens forming militia groups (don`t know if the word "militia" is what I`m looking for, but you know what I mean- the "minutemen" groups in Arizona (texas?) There are military check-points all over the place, but no citizens on guard. But I am not trying to compare or justify one side or the other. My point was that Sparky wasn`t really accurate when he said that Americans have to climb through a million hoops to get a work visa here, because no, they don`t. And they aren`t treated like felons if they are illegal- they get deported if caught, but not sent to jail like a felon. Different story for the Guatamalans and other nationalities.
I tried and I tried, but I don`t understand the "2 wrongs don`t make a right" comment, but I`d be more in favor of "2 wrongs makes everybody wrong"
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Old 08-25-2006, 07:42 PM
 
Location: huatulco, oaxaca, mexico
231 posts, read 464,834 times
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what does "Ivory Tower PC party line" mean? Well, in regards to that paragraph- We weren`t talking about crime once inside the country; we were only debating the dangers of crossing a national border illegally. Who gets killed more- mexicans going into the states, or central americans going into mexico? Down here, in Mexico, we only hear about those getting killed at the US border, but that doesn`t say much. I don`t know the answer, and I really wouldn`t be surprised either way.
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Old 08-26-2006, 12:35 PM
 
1,735 posts, read 4,147,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gringo istmeño View Post
actually, I was talking about citizens forming militia groups (don’t know if the word "militia" is what I’m looking for, but you know what I mean- the "minutemen" groups in Arizona (texas?) There are military check-points all over the place, but no citizens on guard. But I am not trying to compare or justify one side or the other. My point was that Sparky wasn`t really accurate when he said that Americans have to climb through a million hoops to get a work visa here, because no, they don`t. And they aren`t treated like felons if they are illegal- they get deported if caught, but not sent to jail like a felon. Different story for the Guatamalans and other nationalities.
I tried and I tried, but I don`t understand the "2 wrongs don`t make a right" comment, but I`d be more in favor of "2 wrongs makes everybody wrong"
All the minutemen are doing is observing and reporting to the border guards when they see people sneaking into the US. They are not touching, apprehending, interfering with, or in any what impeding these people sneaking into the US. All they are doing is telling the border guards when they see intruders so the border guards can stop them.
This is the job of the US federal government and they weren’t doing their jobs, so US citizens took it upon themselves to do the job for them. This way the border guards cannot ignore these lawbreakers, they have to stop them when someone is watching. This is what makes the US so great. When we see something is not getting done we take action and get things done.
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Old 08-26-2006, 04:50 PM
 
39 posts, read 233,241 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNC View Post
All the minutemen are doing is observing and reporting to the border guards when they see people sneaking into the US. They are not touching, apprehending, interfering with, or in any what impeding these people sneaking into the US. All they are doing is telling the border guards when they see intruders so the border guards can stop them.
This is the job of the US federal government and they weren’t doing their jobs, so US citizens took it upon themselves to do the job for them. This way the border guards cannot ignore these lawbreakers, they have to stop them when someone is watching. This is what makes the US so great. When we see something is not getting done we take action and get things done.
You know what I find absolutely hilarious??? You can't take any form of liquids on a plane due to terrorists -- but our borders are wide open. Is this what you'd call an oxymoron? This government stinks.
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Old 08-27-2006, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Arizona
4 posts, read 10,467 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNC View Post
All the minutemen are doing is observing and reporting to the border guards when they see people sneaking into the US. They are not touching, apprehending, interfering with, or in any what impeding these people sneaking into the US. All they are doing is telling the border guards when they see intruders so the border guards can stop them.
This is the job of the US federal government and they weren’t doing their jobs, so US citizens took it upon themselves to do the job for them. This way the border guards cannot ignore these lawbreakers, they have to stop them when someone is watching. This is what makes the US so great. When we see something is not getting done we take action and get things done.
Exactly. And, you never hear in the media how the Minutemen render aid and water. Of course you can't have the media report anything good about the MM.
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Old 08-27-2006, 10:10 PM
 
107 posts, read 676,831 times
Reputation: 103
And you don't have media reports on the illegals slashing the throats of dogs on properties through which they trespass to "shut them up." I got this from a friend who worked as a caretaker on a border state estate.
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Old 08-28-2006, 02:53 AM
 
9,715 posts, read 12,982,216 times
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One of the things I find fascinating about these discussions about illegals is that people seem to think "doesn't speak English" = "Illegal."

I thought that was true too. Then a company I worked for decided to really check everyone's status and get rid of all the illegals so we couldn't be fined.

We lost: One Canadian (spoke English), one lady from London (spoke English), several Latinos including most of the best bilingual people in the company. We retained several Latinos who spoke NO English (or very little) but were here legally. The company tried to fight to keep some of the bilingual people but was only able to help one become legal.

Like it or not, the USA has long granted refugee status to a LOT of people who do not speak English and the US doesn't require that they learn English either. A lot of them settle in LA or other cities.

Based on my experience, I'd be willing to guess that there are a lot of bilingual or English-speaking people in this country who are here illegally. Think about it. If you wanted to blend in and not get caught, wouldn't you learn English?
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