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Old 08-15-2006, 10:19 AM
 
436 posts, read 489,992 times
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"The number of immigrants living in American households rose 16 percent over the last five years, fueled largely by recent arrivals from Mexico, according to fresh data released by the Census Bureau." - 15 August 2006 New York Times

..but most are here legally, right?
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:27 AM
 
39 posts, read 232,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_2 View Post
"The number of immigrants living in American households rose 16 percent over the last five years, fueled largely by recent arrivals from Mexico, according to fresh data released by the Census Bureau." - 15 August 2006 New York Times

..but most are here legally, right?
I was watching a show on CNN tonight and this was a topic. According to the Census Bureau there is not a question on the form that asks if they are legal or illegal. My guess for the rise is the latter.
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:46 AM
 
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Two facts for conversation for others here: 1) 300 illegal immigrants enter Los Angeles every day; 2) Special Order 40 issued to the Los Angeles Police Dept. prohibits asking apprehended criminals their immigration status.
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:35 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, ca
186 posts, read 771,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
Two facts for conversation for others here: 1) 300 illegal immigrants enter Los Angeles every day; 2) Special Order 40 issued to the Los Angeles Police Dept. prohibits asking apprehended criminals their immigration status.
LAPD also cannot arrest KNOWN felons!!! It isnt a felony to cross the border illegally, or maybe it is, however it is a felony to cross the border IF you were banished from our country and instructed never to return. For example,
If a drug dealing illegal immigrant is caught, tried, convicted, and then deported, the LAPD can do nothing when the immigrant buys his way out of mexico and back onto the LA streets. What a JOKE! Just who the heck are we protecting anyway?!?!

Anyhow, I will try and be an activist more now that I am part of the los angeles county community. We will see how far I get (hahaha).
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:55 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,078,551 times
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while i believe that there are plenty of people entering the country, i dont always buy these numbers. how many of these illegals are the ones that have just recently been deported? most come and go as many as 2 to 3 times a month. some more. people cross the border back and forth all the time. if its not one thing its another. deportation. family emergency. etc. i would like to see numbers not from SOS or a militant "chicano" group. in other words something unbiased.

for the other point about SP 40, there is some misinterpretation. i beleive that police officers should not jeopardize precarious relationships with communities by asking not-crime related questions. if a woman thinks that she might be asked her residency status by police officers she might be less willing to call the police. this order was set in place to protect victims. i also feel that serious offenders, drug related, sex related, assault, pretty much anything that is bad, should be put away regardless of res status. and once they have been charged and found guilty send them back to where they came from. now if its something like driving without insurance or loitering or being here illegally then cops should be worried about all the people going around making FF's block so crummy.

Serious crimes should be treated seriously and i dont think someone being here illegally is serious. Honestly i think the work ethic of these people is better than most. it seems like US born people have forgot how to be of help. I was reminded of this the other day when i went to my nearby home depot. as i drove in i saw all the types everyone on here complains about. the ones that supposedly harrass and whistle at women, bum rush cars, spit etc, etc. well as i was wheeling my little flat cart loaded with tiles and cement back to my car a guy approached me to ask if i needed a worker. well i didnt(this time). i do most of my home repairs and upgrades. he walked with me and once we got to my truck he asked if he could help. in that instance i was flashed back to the days of Lucky super markets and helpeful bag boys who wheeled your shopping cart to the car and loaded your groceries for a quarter or 50 cents and later on 1 dollar. so since i was tired from all the work i had been doing and he wasnt asking for a handout i said sure. he loaded my stuff onto the truck in about 6/7 minutes. heavy stuff too. and then i gave him 2 dollars. could have been the only money he had seen all day. but i was pleased with the work ethic that these guys have. ask yourself do you still see bag boys wheeling your cart to your car? something definitely has to be said of someone who looks for work and happily accepts what you give them. this is no crime. if someone gets picked up for prostitution or childe endangermant or DUI then they deserve what they get. legal or not. throw the book at them. but these people are not the problem. cops should not have to do what border cops failed to do. neither do doctors or teachers.
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Old 08-17-2006, 07:06 PM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,022,764 times
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You are allowed to believe what you stated and post it, as freedom of speech is a hallowed American right.

I disagree with you vehemently. Here's why. People who choose to break American laws go on breaking them, and breaking them, and breaking them and breaking them. Big or small, that's the mindset: American laws don't count to them. And since American laws don't count, neither do American values, American ways, or even...actual Americans.

It's no coincidence that one of the worst car accidents I was in was caused by an illegal driving without any license. He lied to the police about all possible information, showed forged documents, left the scene, and was later proven to have been the criminal he was. Meanwhile my insurance costs are racheted up, because I was the only traceable legal driver. Illegals HURT EVERYONE. They depress wages overall. They end up taxing citizens for services those citizens never receive themselves. They choose to live outside the American laws. They choose to break American laws. Period. This is not defensible anymore than "making a living" by breaking other laws. It would be as if one defended a bank robber or junkie, "just trying to provide for themself." In this case, it was "just a guy here illegally, trying to 'work' and driving without a license." Never mind that he ran a red light, turned left in the wrong lane and plowed into three cars, one of them mine, because he could care less about American laws. Hey, that's the new Los Angeles, illegals are all wonderful! You even say they're not the problem!

It's all of Los Angeles, not just my neighborhood, that is subject to the terrible implications of lawlessness being the norm. Furthermore, all law enforcement is subject to being "an officer of the court," which translates into enforcing the laws of the land no matter what your field. And boy, do you underestimate the work ethic of everyone else in America. Americans are just as desparate these days.

Last edited by fastfilm; 08-17-2006 at 07:24 PM..
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Old 08-17-2006, 10:13 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, ca
186 posts, read 771,350 times
Reputation: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
i beleive that police officers should not jeopardize precarious relationships with communities by asking not-crime related questions. if a woman thinks that she might be asked her residency status by police officers she might be less willing to call the police. this order was set in place to protect victims. i also feel that serious offenders, drug related, sex related, assault, pretty much anything that is bad, should be put away regardless of res status. and once they have been charged and found guilty send them back to where they came from.
hahaha, send them back to mexico?!?? So the crooked cop can let them out for a crack hit and 50 bucks? Once you deport them, they get out the next day and come right back over to our country, and we cant prosecute them until they commit another crime. The link for this is another computer of mine, so I cant post it. I am not sure if it is 100 percent true, but the person listed a bunch of references and articles to support his arguments. I didnt look through his references though, so this may not be true. I HOPE TO GOD IT ISNT!!
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Old 08-17-2006, 10:30 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, ca
186 posts, read 771,350 times
Reputation: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
You are allowed to believe what you stated and post it, as freedom of speech is a hallowed American right.

I disagree with you vehemently. Here's why. People who choose to break American laws go on breaking them, and breaking them, and breaking them and breaking them. Big or small, that's the mindset: American laws don't count to them. And since American laws don't count, neither do American values, American ways, or even...actual Americans.

It's no coincidence that one of the worst car accidents I was in was caused by an illegal driving without any license. He lied to the police about all possible information, showed forged documents, left the scene, and was later proven to have been the criminal he was. Meanwhile my insurance costs are racheted up, because I was the only traceable legal driver. Illegals HURT EVERYONE. They depress wages overall. They end up taxing citizens for services those citizens never receive themselves. They choose to live outside the American laws. They choose to break American laws. Period. This is not defensible anymore than "making a living" by breaking other laws. It would be as if one defended a bank robber or junkie, "just trying to provide for themself." In this case, it was "just a guy here illegally, trying to 'work' and driving without a license." Never mind that he ran a red light, turned left in the wrong lane and plowed into three cars, one of them mine, because he could care less about American laws. Hey, that's the new Los Angeles, illegals are all wonderful! You even say they're not the problem!

It's all of Los Angeles, not just my neighborhood, that is subject to the terrible implications of lawlessness being the norm. Furthermore, all law enforcement is subject to being "an officer of the court," which translates into enforcing the laws of the land no matter what your field. And boy, do you underestimate the work ethic of everyone else in America. Americans are just as desparate these days.
Illegal immigration needs to be dealt with NOW! Americans need to do this in the following order

1) Close the border
2) Get rid of amnesty for anyone who enters the country after say Jan. 2007. Start documenting and finger printing everyone now who is already here so they can be exempt from the amnesty removal.
3) Get harder on illegal immigration by attacking "employers" now! Also, start busting normal citizens like you and me for soliciting work from illegals.
Finally
4) Make a somewhat efficient but thorough process for guest worker/legal resident status. Most likely there will be a quota (i.e. only some many immigrants can enter the country per year).

This process would be my suggestion.
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Old 08-18-2006, 12:52 AM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,911,582 times
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Arrow Facts not true

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlrobe View Post
LAPD also cannot arrest KNOWN felons!!! It isnt a felony to cross the border illegally, or maybe it is, however it is a felony to cross the border IF you were banished from our country and instructed never to return. For example,
If a drug dealing illegal immigrant is caught, tried, convicted, and then deported, the LAPD can do nothing when the immigrant buys his way out of mexico and back onto the LA streets. What a JOKE! Just who the heck are we protecting anyway?!?!

Anyhow, I will try and be an activist more now that I am part of the los angeles county community. We will see how far I get (hahaha).
Jlrobe: The information you're stating from the link you mentioned in not all true. It is a felony to cross the border illegally...hence the term "illegal immigrant." It's just that no police force - local, state or federal - has the manpower to actually find and arrest those that cross illegally. We have to remember that Americans are committing crimes each day during the same time illegal immigrants are crossing over. We pay peace officers to handle Americans first (at least at the state and local levels).

Also, there are legal immigrants being granted admission with work visas, daily, in the hundreds, thousands. Border agents are working with these immigrants.

Next, you have illegal immigrants who, once in America, find enclaves and never leave, never get in trouble; so who's to know if they are legal or illegal? You can't just ask someone if he/she is legal - that's profiling, just like pulling over a black man just because he's driving a nice car. Even though it happens, it doesn't make it right or legal.

Finally, federal agents work daily to remove and prosecute illegal AND legal immigrants who committ crimes. They are deported daily. Trials occur daily. Stakeouts are done daily, etc. For federal agents, their work is never done.

Closing the borders will not help the situation. Penalizing businesses and citizens who hire illegals is a step toward the right direction.

I will say however, that with the housing construction slowing down, we should see a decrease in the coming years of illegal immigrants, as they will no longer be able to earn enough money to stay for any length of time.
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Old 08-18-2006, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, WA
471 posts, read 2,399,913 times
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what people don't understand is, it's a CRIME...just like criminals in a jail, they have little if any constitutional rights. Our constitution and our rights are for the LEGAL CITIZENS of this country.

sympathy only goes so far, economic struggle only goes so far. I'm first generation of my family to be born on U.S. soil, and we are 100 % legal...My family came from less than dirt poverty, from barrios in the philippines so filthy and run down that it makes american troops write home to their family with a new found appreciation of what they have at home..that bad.

my uncle (rest in peace) was not content with that lifestyle, went to school, did the best he can, earning A's while also having to fulfill his responsibilities on the family farm (including getting up at 3am)....he graduated top in his classes, and university, and got a work permit to work for an american company, which later developed into a full fledged american citizenship. after receiving which he petitioned LEGALLY for the rest of his family to join him in the states. And the process took YEARS upon YEARS....years spent with the rest of his family (including my mother and father) still living through horible conditions while waiting. but it was important for all of them to make sure to follow the LAWS, and come legally, so they can reap the full benefit that america had to offer..

my mother came over first, not knowing she was pregnant with me, and spent 7 YEARS here alone without my father, waiting for his paperwork to clear too...from birth to 7 years i was without a father, watching my mother struggle on one income, just so we can do things the right way, and when he finally came to join us, it was wonderful, and we were complete, and we had the knowledge that our stay here would never be in danger, we were here to stay, and legally.

that is why i have no sympathy for those who come here illegally. my family could have just as easily come here on work visas and let them expire, and live here illegally, but we didnt...we went thru years of hardships to make sure it was done right. and so we wouldnt have to live our lives watching out for la migra LOL , and doomed to crap wages and ghettos for the rest of our lives.

The people that come here illegally, regardless of reason, are criminals. and have done it to themselves that they cant even come here legally, because their country has been blacklisted.
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