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Old 10-15-2010, 08:32 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,172,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
You obviously know little about our immigration process, getting an education and not having kids in most cases has no bearing on if you'll have a better chance at being granted authorization to legally enter the country.
I don't think that is what Benicar meant. She is talking about those still in Mexico. If they would get and education and postphone child bearing they would have a better chance in their own country of living a decent lifestyle instead of jumping our borders for one.
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Old 10-15-2010, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,893 posts, read 12,282,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I don't think that is what Benicar meant. She is talking about those still in Mexico. If they would get and education and postphone child bearing they would have a better chance in their own country of living a decent lifestyle instead of jumping our borders for one.
That's obvious, but nothing's a guarantee. Once again, if you saw how it actually is there, you'd understand their situation better. Just to throw out a quick example, my wife is from one of the supposed "middle-class heavy" parts of Mexico. She went to college and got a degree to be a middle school geography teacher. However, the only way for people to get teaching jobs at government schools in Mexico (which are the only schools that pay a decent living wage) is if you possess something called a "placa." The only way you can legally obtain a placa is by paying an exhoribant fee of something like $20,000 USD. Of course almost nobody coming out of college has this kind of money to throw down just so they can get a job. The only other way is if your family already has a placa it can be passed down from mother to daughter, etc. It's a ridiculously stupid system and there are lots of stories that go around about the disgusting cases of young females who are subject of quid-pro-quo in order to get a placa, etc. This kind of thing is very common also due to the broken legal system that doesn't offer any kind of protection for things like harrassment, etc. I could go on and on....it's really friggin' messed up there, even for people who do everything right and get educated and don't have kids...the unpriveleged ones are likely still screwed.
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:17 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,172,244 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
That's obvious, but nothing's a guarantee. Once again, if you saw how it actually is there, you'd understand their situation better. Just to throw out a quick example, my wife is from one of the supposed "middle-class heavy" parts of Mexico. She went to college and got a degree to be a middle school geography teacher. However, the only way for people to get teaching jobs at government schools in Mexico (which are the only schools that pay a decent living wage) is if you possess something called a "placa." The only way you can legally obtain a placa is by paying an exhoribant fee of something like $20,000 USD. Of course almost nobody coming out of college has this kind of money to throw down just so they can get a job. The only other way is if your family already has a placa it can be passed down from mother to daughter, etc. It's a ridiculously stupid system and there are lots of stories that go around about the disgusting cases of young females who are subject of quid-pro-quo in order to get a placa, etc. This kind of thing is very common also due to the broken legal system that doesn't offer any kind of protection for things like harrassment, etc. I could go on and on....it's really friggin' messed up there, even for people who do everything right and get educated and don't have kids...the unpriveleged ones are likely still screwed.
If it is that hard to get a job after going to college in Mexico then why do they even bother to go? I mean they must know the job hurdles before they enter college, don't they? In that case the educated from Mexico should have a much easier time to migrate to the U.S. legally or other countries who desire educated immigrants, wouldn't they?

I doubt that most of those crossing our borders illegally today even have aspirations to go to college. They are raised in poverty, taught to have kids at an early age and don't value an education.
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,893 posts, read 12,282,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
If it is that hard to get a job after going to college in Mexico then why do they even bother to go? I mean they must know the job hurdles before they enter college, don't they? In that case the educated from Mexico should have a much easier time to migrate to the U.S. legally or other countries who desire educated immigrants, wouldn't they?
I don't have good answers to these questions. In my wife's case she wasn't really planning on staying in Mexico. When I met her she was already looking into teaching opportunities in places in Europe and Canada. She was also going to try and find something decent in Mexico because there's always the chance you can get lucky but did not have high hopes. The educated populace from Mexico don't have any better shot at getting legal permission to enter the U.S. than anybody else unless they have a school or job lined up here. They can't even get visitor visas unless they meet all kinds of requirements like having a certain level of income, are a business owner or own a certain amount of land....for somebody fresh out of college this is very unlikely.

Quote:
I doubt that most of those crossing our borders illegally today even have aspirations to go to college. They are raised in poverty, taught to have kids at an early age and don't value an education.
That's true for some but you'd be surprised how many of these people are professionals back in their home country. I personally know an attorney from Mexico who snuck into the U.S. to try and make a better living. Since his education and profession isn't accredited here he ended up working crappy factory jobs and still ended up making alot more money here than he could even hope to make as an attorney in Mexico City. I also know other people who were accountants, pharmacists and other educated professions and here they are looked upon as nothing because it didn't transfer over, they are undocumented and their English is limited.
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I don't think that is what Benicar meant. She is talking about those still in Mexico. If they would get and education and postphone child bearing they would have a better chance in their own country of living a decent lifestyle instead of jumping our borders for one.
Thank you! Thatís EXACTLY what I meant.
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
That's obvious, but nothing's a guarantee. Once again, if you saw how it actually is there, you'd understand their situation better. Just to throw out a quick example, my wife is from one of the supposed "middle-class heavy" parts of Mexico. She went to college and got a degree to be a middle school geography teacher. However, the only way for people to get teaching jobs at government schools in Mexico (which are the only schools that pay a decent living wage) is if you possess something called a "placa." The only way you can legally obtain a placa is by paying an exhoribant fee of something like $20,000 USD. Of course almost nobody coming out of college has this kind of money to throw down just so they can get a job. The only other way is if your family already has a placa it can be passed down from mother to daughter, etc. It's a ridiculously stupid system and there are lots of stories that go around about the disgusting cases of young females who are subject of quid-pro-quo in order to get a placa, etc. This kind of thing is very common also due to the broken legal system that doesn't offer any kind of protection for things like harrassment, etc. I could go on and on....it's really friggin' messed up there, even for people who do everything right and get educated and don't have kids...the unpriveleged ones are likely still screwed.
Wouldnít it benefit the citizens of Mexico to fight for change, rather than flee to the U.S. or other countries? If no one is willing to challenge their policies, nothing will improve. The citizens of this country fought to change laws. Why canít Mexicans do the same? I donít understand their apathy and defeatism.
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,893 posts, read 12,282,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Wouldn’t it benefit the citizens of Mexico to fight for change, rather than flee to the U.S. or other countries? If no one is willing to challenge their policies, nothing will improve. The citizens of this country fought to change laws. Why can’t Mexicans do the same? I don’t understand their apathy and defeatism.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That's a good one! Honestly, where the hell could you even begin? You'd need a friggin' revolution and many many years of restructure and change to even get to the tip of the iceberg of the problems in that country.
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:25 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,391,246 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
That's obvious, but nothing's a guarantee. Once again, if you saw how it actually is there, you'd understand their situation better. Just to throw out a quick example, my wife is from one of the supposed "middle-class heavy" parts of Mexico. She went to college and got a degree to be a middle school geography teacher. However, the only way for people to get teaching jobs at government schools in Mexico (which are the only schools that pay a decent living wage) is if you possess something called a "placa." The only way you can legally obtain a placa is by paying an exhoribant fee of something like $20,000 USD. Of course almost nobody coming out of college has this kind of money to throw down just so they can get a job. The only other way is if your family already has a placa it can be passed down from mother to daughter, etc. It's a ridiculously stupid system and there are lots of stories that go around about the disgusting cases of young females who are subject of quid-pro-quo in order to get a placa, etc. This kind of thing is very common also due to the broken legal system that doesn't offer any kind of protection for things like harrassment, etc. I could go on and on....it's really friggin' messed up there, even for people who do everything right and get educated and don't have kids...the unpriveleged ones are likely still screwed.
Frankly, I don't care. That's neither an American problem nor an American responsibility to fix. More than a billion of the world's people live on less than $2 a day. Most of them are far worse off than the average Mexican. They don't break into the United States by the millions let alone whine when we don't speak their language or demand they obey our migration laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Wouldnít it benefit the citizens of Mexico to fight for change, rather than flee to the U.S. or other countries? If no one is willing to challenge their policies, nothing will improve. The citizens of this country fought to change laws. Why canít Mexicans do the same? I donít understand their apathy and defeatism.
Exactly.

FYI, Americans are incredibly generous when it comes to allowing Mexicans to move here. We're allowed millions to settle in America legally. But America does not exist to solve every single problem faced by every single Mexican. This is not the United States of Mexico. Every single lower class, uneducated, non-English speaking Mexican cannot possibly expect Americans to grant them permission to move here, let alone do so in the teeth of the worst recession in decades.

They have one country not two.
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:29 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,391,246 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That's a good one! Honestly, where the hell could you even begin? You'd need a friggin' revolution and many many years of restructure and change to even get to the tip of the iceberg of the problems in that country.
So the solution is that every single Mexican should be able to come to the United States? I'll see your hahahahahah and raise you a not in our lifetime. Americans have no particular responsibility towards the average Mexican.
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:36 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,391,246 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I don't have good answers to these questions. In my wife's case she wasn't really planning on staying in Mexico. When I met her she was already looking into teaching opportunities in places in Europe and Canada. She was also going to try and find something decent in Mexico because there's always the chance you can get lucky but did not have high hopes. The educated populace from Mexico don't have any better shot at getting legal permission to enter the U.S. than anybody else unless they have a school or job lined up here. They can't even get visitor visas unless they meet all kinds of requirements like having a certain level of income, are a business owner or own a certain amount of land....for somebody fresh out of college this is very unlikely.
Why should they expect to come to the United States if they don't have skills that Americans need?

Quote:
That's true for some but you'd be surprised how many of these people are professionals back in their home country. I personally know an attorney from Mexico who snuck into the U.S. to try and make a better living. Since his education and profession isn't accredited here he ended up working crappy factory jobs and still ended up making alot more money here than he could even hope to make as an attorney in Mexico City. I also know other people who were accountants, pharmacists and other educated professions and here they are looked upon as nothing because it didn't transfer over, they are undocumented and their English is limited.
Stats show that the average illegal migrant is from Mexico, does not speak English and has a junior high school education. He is not an educated professional. He is not needed or wanted by our society in spite of his delusions to the countrary. If you do decide to move here you'd better do so legally and you'd learn English before you get here. If you can't fulfill either requirement stay home.

Those are not particularly tough requirements. Most nations, including Mexico, have similar immigration restrictions.
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