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Old 10-12-2010, 03:07 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
That's weird because I use my Spanish every day, including for my job, and I live in Minnesota. If I lived in Southern California or Chicago I'd probably be using my Spanish even more. I kind of wish I took the time to learn Arabic too because it is heavily used in some Minneapolis neighborhoods. Unfortunatley currently the only Arabic I know is a couple vulgar words Besides that, the US Gov't is constantly looking for people to work as Arabic translators in their efforts in anti-terrorism, etc. so it would likely lead to additional job opportunities.



I fail to understand the correlation between expanding legal immigration and blocking out potential legal immigrants in other countries.



Yeah, nobody is saying that Americans can't work construction anymore. I know some white American born guys who are kicking butt in construction right now and charge a premium for it, even during the economic recession. Why is this? Because they do a really excellent job and are able to provide services that other people can't and that allows them to get more contracts and charge a higher price. Maybe these American blue collar types should learn to deal with a little competition. If they suck at what they do they won't survive with or without competition coming from immigrants.
Why do you need to speak Spanish in Minnesota or anywhere else? Most Hispanic Americans know how to speak English. If one wants to work as an interpreter than by all means learn a different language but for most Americans they neither have the desire to become one or the opportunities are limited. There are very few jobs where an American would need to know another language.

You're the one who said allowing more legal immigrants in would deter illegal immigration. I showed you how it wouldn't and now you say there is no correlation? You still didn't answer my question. Here we go again. "There are millions of poor all over the world that would like to migrate here and we can't accomodate them all so how do we stop the surplus from coming here illegally then"? Opening more avenues for legal immigration will not fix that problem.

I have no problem with competiton just as long as it is fair. Competiton from foreign workers in your own country isn't fair. These illegals are coming over here and learning the construction trade and even some of the more skilled jobs in it and working at half price. You don't see the unfairness in that? Even if they were made legal, we don't need foreign competiton for jobs on our own soil. How many American construction workers "suck at what they do"? You have some stats on that? All I hear about is the shoddy workmanship that the illegals do.
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Old 10-12-2010, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I fail to understand the correlation between expanding legal immigration and blocking out potential legal immigrants in other countries.
By ďexpanding legal immigrationĒ are you referring to legalizing those who are currently here illegally? If so, the correlation is simple. We now have untold millions, perhaps as many as 30 million illegal aliens. With the passage of CIR, these people would be permitted to remain here and given an opportunity for the so-called path to citizenship. Where does that leave the millions who chose to obey our laws, yet remain in their countries? We certainly canít admit every person in the world who wants to live here, particularly given our current economic crisis. Consequently, many of the law-abiding would be denied an opportunity to pursue the American Dream, while scofflaws would be rewarded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Yeah, nobody is saying that Americans can't work construction anymore. I know some white American born guys who are kicking butt in construction right now and charge a premium for it, even during the economic recession. Why is this? Because they do a really excellent job and are able to provide services that other people can't and that allows them to get more contracts and charge a higher price. Maybe these American blue collar types should learn to deal with a little competition. If they suck at what they do they won't survive with or without competition coming from immigrants.
Are the employees of your American butt-kicking construction friends illegal? If not, they are indeed a rarity, because most legitimate construction contractors are unable to compete against the unscrupulous employers of illegal aliens. An unprecedented number of businesses have gone bankrupt, and quality of work is not a factor. Itís greed, period. However, there are many lucrative business enterprises for the unethical.
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Old 10-12-2010, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I appreciate you going above and beyond to defend your morals but to be fair you've never been forced into a situation where you're stuck living in a country with a failed economy. Let's not kid ourselves, Mexico isn't the worst place in the world to live but it's plenty messed up there.
And, you donít consider our current economic status a failure?

If we continue to allow Mexico to dump its citizens on the taxpayers of this country, we will soon mirror Mexico. Would that be acceptable?
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Old 10-12-2010, 03:57 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,044,409 times
Reputation: 17688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Once again I hate to say it but I think you're still in your dreamworld. If you're referring to the Arizona law you're sadly mistaken....go talk to any intelligent attorney and they'll tell you that the Arizona bill has no teeth in its current state...it's nothing more than symbolic at this point.
Not the AZ law, immigration laws in general. Look how many Politicians are using it as part of their platform. The heat for Illegals is turning up not down.

I've had enough of dealing with the break ins and identity theft. Post script, my "dream world" is one where some illegal immigrants aren't breaking into my condo or stealing my identity documents.

Last edited by 1AngryTaxPayer; 10-12-2010 at 04:08 PM..
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Old 10-12-2010, 04:07 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,044,409 times
Reputation: 17688
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Why do you need to speak Spanish in Minnesota or anywhere else? Most Hispanic Americans know how to speak English. If one wants to work as an interpreter than by all means learn a different language but for most Americans they neither have the desire to become one or the opportunities are limited. There are very few jobs where an American would need to know another language.

You're the one who said allowing more legal immigrants in would deter illegal immigration. I showed you how it wouldn't and now you say there is no correlation? You still didn't answer my question. Here we go again. "There are millions of poor all over the world that would like to migrate here and we can't accomodate them all so how do we stop the surplus from coming here illegally then"? Opening more avenues for legal immigration will not fix that problem.

I have no problem with competiton just as long as it is fair. Competiton from foreign workers in your own country isn't fair. These illegals are coming over here and learning the construction trade and even some of the more skilled jobs in it and working at half price. You don't see the unfairness in that? Even if they were made legal, we don't need foreign competiton for jobs on our own soil. How many American construction workers "suck at what they do"? You have some stats on that? All I hear about is the shoddy workmanship that the illegals do.
Unless I want to converse with someone here illegally I don't need to know another language( example a gardener). We do have some refugees but they are busy learning English.
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Old 10-12-2010, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
You're really not very in touch with our economy are you? The economy sucks right now for pretty much all people. But it is true that illegal migrants are lower skilled than most Americans. Tell me why should we import low skilled workers when we already have too many here?
The point I was attempting to make earlier is that bringing in more low-skill uneducated workers who can't speak English doesn't affect any of us because we don't care about those jobs. Everybody I know wants a good paying career with good benefits...I and any other reasonable person could care less if more line cooks, landscapers and apple pickers come into the country. None of those are jobs I would ever have any interest in doing or would be able to make a comfortable living doing. Thus, that has absolutely no effect on my job prospects. To blame them for not being able to find a job is just a scapegoat.

Quote:
Everyone does have to be documented. The problem is that some people believe such laws do not apply to them.
Like I've already stated, if those people had the opportunity to become legally documented, the vast majority would do so...the fact that they can't yet they can easily get in illegally is the cause of the problem.

Quote:
It's a shame that some people think that because they've decided to break the law and move here that others are somehow obligated to learn their language.
Nobody is obligated to learn their language, but it does open up the opportunity to learn another language that can be used on a daily basis. If you haven't learned another language, I highly recommend doing so.
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Old 10-12-2010, 06:22 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,044,409 times
Reputation: 17688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
The point I was attempting to make earlier is that bringing in more low-skill uneducated workers who can't speak English doesn't affect any of us because we don't care about those jobs. Everybody I know wants a good paying career with good benefits...I and any other reasonable person could care less if more line cooks, landscapers and apple pickers come into the country. None of those are jobs I would ever have any interest in doing or would be able to make a comfortable living doing. Thus, that has absolutely no effect on my job prospects. To blame them for not being able to find a job is just a scapegoat.



Like I've already stated, if those people had the opportunity to become legally documented, the vast majority would do so...the fact that they can't yet they can easily get in illegally is the cause of the problem.



Nobody is obligated to learn their language, but it does open up the opportunity to learn another language that can be used on a daily basis. If you haven't learned another language, I highly recommend doing so.
Not affect us? You don't consider the theft of tax dollars any type of "effect"? On a massive scale? Maybe if you had it happen in a more direct way like at gun point?
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Old 10-12-2010, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Why do you need to speak Spanish in Minnesota or anywhere else? Most Hispanic Americans know how to speak English. If one wants to work as an interpreter than by all means learn a different language but for most Americans they neither have the desire to become one or the opportunities are limited. There are very few jobs where an American would need to know another language.
For alot of reasons, some of which are that I am required to speak Spanish at work. Another reason is that I live in a neighborhood that has a significant level of people who are primarily Spanish speaking...lot's of 1st and 2nd generation Hispanic immigrants.

Quote:
You're the one who said allowing more legal immigrants in would deter illegal immigration. I showed you how it wouldn't and now you say there is no correlation? You still didn't answer my question. Here we go again. "There are millions of poor all over the world that would like to migrate here and we can't accomodate them all so how do we stop the surplus from coming here illegally then"? Opening more avenues for legal immigration will not fix that problem.
As long as people keep immigrating here and are finding work, people will continue to come here. The very moment people start coming here and cannot find work anywhere is the very moment immigration will stop. It's all about work opportunity. That is the cause of the vast majority of immigration into this country.

Quote:
I have no problem with competiton just as long as it is fair. Competiton from foreign workers in your own country isn't fair. These illegals are coming over here and learning the construction trade and even some of the more skilled jobs in it and working at half price. You don't see the unfairness in that? Even if they were made legal, we don't need foreign competiton for jobs on our own soil. How many American construction workers "suck at what they do"? You have some stats on that? All I hear about is the shoddy workmanship that the illegals do.
Hmm, you really need to read up on globalization and global competition.
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Old 10-12-2010, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Are the employees of your American butt-kicking construction friends illegal? If not, they are indeed a rarity, because most legitimate construction contractors are unable to compete against the unscrupulous employers of illegal aliens. An unprecedented number of businesses have gone bankrupt, and quality of work is not a factor. Itís greed, period. However, there are many lucrative business enterprises for the unethical.
Nope, not that I'm aware of. These aren't large construction Companies I'm referring to. It is either one guy or a small group that takes on various construction and home improvement projects. I'm fairly certain there are no unlawful employment practices taking place with these individuals.
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Old 10-12-2010, 06:26 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,044,409 times
Reputation: 17688
Quote:
Originally Posted by slig View Post
for alot of reasons, some of which are that i am required to speak spanish at work. Another reason is that i live in a neighborhood that has a significant level of people who are primarily spanish speaking...lot's of 1st and 2nd generation hispanic immigrants.



As long as people keep immigrating here and are finding work, people will continue to come here. The very moment people start coming here and cannot find work anywhere is the very moment immigration will stop. It's all about work opportunity. That is the cause of the vast majority of immigration into this country.

wrong, the social service draw, along with the current status of the 3rd world hell holes is more than enough.


hmm, you really need to read up on globalization and global competition.
and the ills of illegal immigration
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