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Old 10-31-2010, 04:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
"We"? I wasn't aware that you were a major governing power with influence over immigration policy. Aside from that, the United States has historically adopted discriminatory immigration policy towards Irish, Germans, Southern and Eastern Europeans (Slavs, Jews, Hungarians, etc.), and now, authoritarian immigration policy towards Mesoamerican Indians. By and large, that population has been displaced by so-called neoliberal policies in Mesoamerica supported by U.S. governments.



Well, aside from her, there are other members of her family that migrated by flying from Guatemala City to Los Angeles, and they're rather evenly split. So as I said, these anecdotal sentiments cut both ways, which is why statistical evidence is preferable.
So does your mother believe in unlimited immigration to the USA for the whole world or for just "her people"?
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Old 10-31-2010, 05:19 PM
 
Location: SELA
532 posts, read 876,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
So does your mother believe in unlimited immigration to the USA for the whole world or for just "her people"?
What are "her people"?
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Old 10-31-2010, 06:11 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,932 times
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[quote=Agnapostate;16473854]"We"? I wasn't aware that you were a major governing power with influence over immigration policy. Aside from that, the United States has historically adopted discriminatory immigration policy towards Irish, Germans, Southern and Eastern Europeans (Slavs, Jews, Hungarians, etc.), and now, authoritarian immigration policy towards Mesoamerican Indians. By and large, that population has been displaced by so-called neoliberal policies in Mesoamerica supported by U.S. governments.

Obviously, "we" means collectively our government and "we" citizens. Why pretend you don't know what Benicar meant? There has been no discrimination against any national group in regards to legal immigration for decades now so why drag up the past? There is no discrimination against those in Mexico either. Mexicans and other Latino countries have the second highest quotas for legal immigration. Asians only lead by a few percentage points.
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:54 PM
 
Location: SELA
532 posts, read 876,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Obviously, "we" means collectively our government and "we" citizens. Why pretend you don't know what Benicar meant? There has been no discrimination against any national group in regards to legal immigration for decades now so why drag up the past? There is no discrimination against those in Mexico either. Mexicans and other Latino countries have the second highest quotas for legal immigration. Asians only lead by a few percentage points.
The reason for the correction, chicagonut, is because the possessive pronoun "we" implies a personal influence, when in fact none exists. This is something that you are quick to point out when it comes to your lack of personal participation in the American Holocaust that involved the genocide of millions of American Indians, so I am similarly quick to point it out in this case. I'm quite the individualist.

As for the issue of racial discrimination against Southern/Eastern Europeans and other peoples, it is brought up to illustrate the fact that historically, the U.S. has not had a generous or humane refugee policy. To some extent, the same issue exists today, except now instead of formal legal persecution, immigrants undergo economic persecution, which creates the push/pull factors that displace them to begin with, and then more informal discrimination in the U.S., though this SB 1070 is evidence of a wave of authoritarianism to come.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:06 PM
 
Location: SELA
532 posts, read 876,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Obviously, "we" means collectively our government and "we" citizens. Why pretend you don't know what Benicar meant? There has been no discrimination against any national group in regards to legal immigration for decades now so why drag up the past? There is no discrimination against those in Mexico either. Mexicans and other Latino countries have the second highest quotas for legal immigration. Asians only lead by a few percentage points.
The reason for the correction, chicagonut, is because the possessive pronoun "we" implies a personal influence, when in fact none exists. This is something that you are quick to point out when it comes to your lack of personal participation in the American Holocaust that involved the genocide of millions of American Indians, so I am similarly quick to point it out in this case. I'm quite the individualist.

As for the issue of racial discrimination against Southern/Eastern Europeans and other peoples, it is brought up to illustrate the fact that historically, the U.S. has not had a generous or humane refugee policy. To some extent, the same issue exists today, except now instead of formal legal persecution, immigrants undergo economic persecution, which creates the push/pull factors that displace them to begin with, and then more informal discrimination in the U.S., though this SB 1070 is evidence of a wave of authoritarianism to come.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
The reason for the correction, chicagonut, is because the possessive pronoun "we" implies a personal influence, when in fact none exists. This is something that you are quick to point out when it comes to your lack of personal participation in the American Holocaust that involved the genocide of millions of American Indians, so I am similarly quick to point it out in this case. I'm quite the individualist.

As for the issue of racial discrimination against Southern/Eastern Europeans and other peoples, it is brought up to illustrate the fact that historically, the U.S. has not had a generous or humane refugee policy. To some extent, the same issue exists today, except now instead of formal legal persecution, immigrants undergo economic persecution, which creates the push/pull factors that displace them to begin with, and then more informal discrimination in the U.S., though this SB 1070 is evidence of a wave of authoritarianism to come.
There is no "economic persecution" catagory for refugee status nor should our country have it. Otherwise, we would have a population 6 times what we have now.

SB1070, contrary to illegal alien advocate propaganda is not a form of discrimination. It is a tool to help enforce immigration law and is well needed.
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:57 PM
 
Location: SELA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
There is no "economic persecution" catagory for refugee status nor should our country have it. Otherwise, we would have a population 6 times what we have now.
In the case of Mesoamerica, U.S. governments past and present have actually played an integral role in creating the concept of "economic persecution" there. Apart from the more overt political acts such as the support of rightist paramilitary movements in El Salvador and the removal of Arbenz in Guatemala and eventual support of Rios Montt, trade agreements that are favorable to political and business leaders in both the U.S. and Mexico (of which NAFTA was the crown jewel), have caused rural flight to urban centers, and eventually to the United States. It's a curious fact that most Mexican immigrants are from southern Mexico despite the fact that northern Mexico is obviously adjacent to U.S. territory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
SB1070, contrary to illegal alien advocate propaganda is not a form of discrimination. It is a tool to help enforce immigration law and is well needed.
It's an example of the rightist authoritarianism that can emerge when a perfect storm is created through the collision of preexisting social conservatism and economic crisis. Accordingly, white supremacists are among its most enthusiastic proponents.

Arizona Bill SB 1070 to Require Local Cops to Enforce Immigration Law - Stormfront

Quote:
"Racial profiling." Those magic words which work so well within the media and the political system. We also refer to it as the "race card."
Quote:
It would be a whole lot cheaper if the Federal government simply enforced existing laws. But we all know that's not going to happen since corporate America, which profits tremendously from illegal aliens at the expense of American jobs and tax dollars (if you want to talk about tax dollars, let's discuss the cost of illegal immigration), pretty much has the Federal government in it's collective hip pocket.
Quote:
In my opinion illegals have no rights under the US constitution. Just the fact they set foot on American soil makes them at the least trespassers. If not foreign invaders. In my state of Oklahoma any amount of force up to deadly force can be used to remove a trespasser. Which is a right of any Oklahoma citizen. Not just law enforcement. Read the laws I am sure most all states have about the same trespassing laws as Oklahoma.
You should be mindful of the company you keep.
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:11 PM
 
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It doesn't matter who is a proponent of SB1070. All that matters is what is in the law. White supremists don't gain a thing by this law. Illegal aliens should be deported no matter what their race is.
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Old 11-03-2010, 03:58 PM
 
Location: SELA
532 posts, read 876,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It doesn't matter who is a proponent of SB1070. All that matters is what is in the law. White supremists don't gain a thing by this law. Illegal aliens should be deported no matter what their race is.
Does this executive order seem "racist" to you?

Quote:
Now, therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the United States, and Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy, I hereby authorize and direct the Secretary of War, and the Military Commanders whom he may from time to time designate, whenever he or any designated Commander deems such action necessary or desirable, to prescribe military areas in such places and of such extent as he or the appropriate Military Commander may determine, from which any or all persons may be excluded, and with respect to which, the right of any person to enter, remain in, or leave shall be subject to whatever restrictions the Secretary of War or the appropriate Military Commander may impose in his discretion.
There's no mention of any specific race or ethnic group. Yet this order, Executive Order 9066, was enacted by President Roosevelt and utilized for the compulsory relocation and internment of 110,000 ethnic Japanese, and smaller numbers of Germans and Italians. What you need to understand is that the absence of de jure language specifying ethnic minorities does not mean that they will not be targeted as a de facto practice.
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
Does this executive order seem "racist" to you?



There's no mention of any specific race or ethnic group. Yet this order, Executive Order 9066, was enacted by President Roosevelt and utilized for the compulsory relocation and internment of 110,000 ethnic Japanese, and smaller numbers of Germans and Italians. What you need to understand is that the absence of de jure language specifying ethnic minorities does not mean that they will not be targeted as a de facto practice.
You're bringing up a law from way back in the Roosevelt days and comparing it with illegal immigration today and SB1070? They aren't even remotely connected.
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