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Old 10-15-2010, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
Reputation: 2520

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
As a legal migrant I am already asked constantly by HR people for documents from ALL lists, even though that isn't correct procedure.

Being legal, I usually just shrug it off and give it to them (arguing with them does no good it seems). I'm wondering why illegals aren't asked for the same thing.
From a legal standpoint the employer must follow the same correct process with all prospective employees or it would be viewed as a discriminatory.
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,946,003 times
Reputation: 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
From a legal standpoint the employer must follow the same correct process with all prospective employees or it would be viewed as a discriminatory.
Hah - tell that to the idiots that do the processing - it's happened to me more times than I can count.
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
You really need to understand the process before you post because I'm sick of explaining this over and over. Somebody could be hired and produce a state driver's license as their photo ID with the way the current I-9 form is laid out (this would be a list B document, which can be accompanied with a list c document on the I-9 form). E-Verify doesn't have state issued documents in its database so the employer wouldn't be given anything to compare the photo on the license to. This allows the employee the chance to steal somebody else's identity information and then take the stolen driver's license and manipulate it so their photo appears on the document instead of the actual owner of the ID. This method of fraud cannot be done with federally issued documents because E-verify gives the employer access to the original document so it can be compared to the one presented by the employee. Hence, my original proposal.



That's kind of the whole point of the photo verification portion of E-verify, so if a document is stolen and manipulated it won't match up with the original document when the employer compares the two during the E-verify process. If the passport is just flat out stolen the photo on the passport won't match the person presenting it, so the employer would be required to reject the document per the I-9 process.


Any other doubts?
What part of “mandatory” do YOU not comprehend? You don’t need to explain anything to me. You need to comply with the current law, which mandates the E-Verify photo tool. It’s just that simple.

Also, if you believe illegals will not be able to provide “valid” yet fraudulently obtained passports, you are truly in the wrong position.

I’m through with this discussion.
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
What part of “mandatory” do YOU not comprehend? You don’t need to explain anything to me. You need to comply with the current law, which mandates the E-Verify photo tool. It’s just that simple.

Also, if you believe illegals will not be able to provide “valid” yet fraudulently obtained passports, you are truly in the wrong position.

I’m through with this discussion.
Yes, mandatory if the employee provides a List A federally issued ID document. But how can you possibly use the photo compare tool to documents that Homeland Security doesn't have access to? E-verify will ask you what documents the employee provided. Once you answer that the employee provided a state driver's license E-verify will automatically skip over the photo compare portion of the program. I'm not making this up, this is what really happens, and anybody who has used the E-verify system would tell you the same.

I know how fraud is done and if you can find any way for the person to get through my proposed change to the process fraudulently I'd LOVE to hear about it.

Unfortunately based on your posts I know for a fact you've never used E-verify and don't understand anything that I'm talking about....which is why this conversation is going nowhere.
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:55 AM
 
1,113 posts, read 1,889,092 times
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Instead of FURTHER harrassing employees, throw the EMPLOYERS IN JAIL who hire illegals.

The problem would end in a New York second.
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SacalaitWhisperer View Post
Instead of FURTHER harrassing employees, throw the EMPLOYERS IN JAIL who hire illegals.

The problem would end in a New York second.
You'd be throwing all employers in jail because the tools they have available to only hire employees who are authorized to legally work in the US are flawed. That is the whole freakin' point for my proposal to correct these tools so they are effective.
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:50 PM
 
1,150 posts, read 990,803 times
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Many of the E-Verify mistakes aren't mistakes made by the system, but by people. One frequent error is when a woman gets married, and fails to change her surname with Social Security. Another, found now and then, is when a person's first name appears on Social Security documents, but they work under their middle name. The system itself makes very few mistakes.
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Old 10-15-2010, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
Reputation: 2520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayarcy View Post
Many of the E-Verify mistakes aren't mistakes made by the system, but by people. One frequent error is when a woman gets married, and fails to change her surname with Social Security. Another, found now and then, is when a person's first name appears on Social Security documents, but they work under their middle name. The system itself makes very few mistakes.
Yeah, I mean overall the system is pretty good. It would just be alot more effective in deterring fraud if the change is made that I propose in my original post.
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Old 10-15-2010, 02:04 PM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,085,289 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
People who regularly post on this board seem to know very little about E-Verify and the I-9 form, so for those of you who are not familiar with these processes, please bear with me. However, I have a strong reason to believe that if these processes are done correctly and properly enforced they would deter almost all employment fraud and essentially put an end to our illegal immigration problem.

Here is my proposal:

If the I-9 form is changed to force all new hires to present a List A and List C document as opposed to the current requirement of either a List A or a List B and List C document E-verify would allow the employer to compare the actual legal federal document photo with that of the document being presented by the employee, with no exceptions. If this was implemented the only people who would be able to slip through this process would be people who use the actual original documents of somebody else. Essentially, this would basically never work unless the guy providing the documents to you is the actual owner of the documents' identical twin or Hollywood double. Catch my drift here?

The reason I think the employee should also present a list C document (birth certificate, Social Security Card, etc.) is that it would force him/her to produce a second document to prove employment eligibility along with the federally issued ID document (List A). It would basically just create another obstacle for somebody who is attempting to fraud the system.

Now, my plan would only work under the conditions that:

A) E-verify was required for all employers, and
B) The Department of Homeland Security adjusted the I-9 form to require all new hires to present an acceptable List A document and List C document at the time of hire.

Any thoughts or feedback on this proposal?
Sir I read through your "proposal"...the one thing that jumps out is that you may be assuming that the employer is involved in the verification process other than supplying DHS/USCIS with the information requested on their on-line forms. The Employer and employee must create an on-line account, then supply requested forms documentation, then wait for a response. There is no immediate verifcation of the employee's immigration status(I-9 or other) and may take 24 hours up to 3 business days[or more](at current verifcation rates).

http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedoc...ify_Manual.pdf
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Old 10-15-2010, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
Reputation: 2520
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
Sir I read through your "proposal"...the one thing that jumps out is that you may be assuming that the employer is involved in the verification process other than supplying DHS/USCIS with the information requested on their on-line forms. The Employer and employee must create an on-line account, then supply requested forms documentation, then wait for a response. There is no immediate verifcation of the employee's immigration status(I-9 or other) and may take 24 hours up to 3 business days[or more](at current verifcation rates).

http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedoc...ify_Manual.pdf
The photo comparison takes place on site by the employer when he/she goes through the E-verify process for a new hire. The only time the employer would need to wait for a response from either the Department of Homeland Security or the Social Security Administration is when putting the new hire through E-verify results in a tentative non-confirmation or if the employer puts the information through and is notified that he/she needs to contact either department. That is seperate from the photo comparison tool section of the process.
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