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Old 10-14-2010, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,249,807 times
Reputation: 2520

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People who regularly post on this board seem to know very little about E-Verify and the I-9 form, so for those of you who are not familiar with these processes, please bear with me. However, I have a strong reason to believe that if these processes are done correctly and properly enforced they would deter almost all employment fraud and essentially put an end to our illegal immigration problem.

Here is my proposal:

If the I-9 form is changed to force all new hires to present a List A and List C document as opposed to the current requirement of either a List A or a List B and List C document E-verify would allow the employer to compare the actual legal federal document photo with that of the document being presented by the employee, with no exceptions. If this was implemented the only people who would be able to slip through this process would be people who use the actual original documents of somebody else. Essentially, this would basically never work unless the guy providing the documents to you is the actual owner of the documents' identical twin or Hollywood double. Catch my drift here?

The reason I think the employee should also present a list C document (birth certificate, Social Security Card, etc.) is that it would force him/her to produce a second document to prove employment eligibility along with the federally issued ID document (List A). It would basically just create another obstacle for somebody who is attempting to fraud the system.

Now, my plan would only work under the conditions that:

A) E-verify was required for all employers, and
B) The Department of Homeland Security adjusted the I-9 form to require all new hires to present an acceptable List A document and List C document at the time of hire.

Any thoughts or feedback on this proposal?

Last edited by Cruz Azul Guy; 10-14-2010 at 01:06 PM..
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
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Works for me. I just had to submit an I-9 for where I work. Unfortunately it was a random selection of employees instead of all. I had to provide 2 forms of picture ID. A passport was 1 that I provided. It should be mandatory for 100% of employers to require the I-9.
Good post slig
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Illegals and their enablers are adept at document fraud. Consequently, anything short of biometrics will not suffice. If our government would stringently enforce ALL of our immigration laws, we would not even need E-Verify.
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Old 10-14-2010, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,249,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Illegals and their enablers are adept at document fraud. Consequently, anything short of biometrics will not suffice. If our government would stringently enforce ALL of our immigration laws, we would not even need E-Verify.
Wow, you're just going to toss my idea in the garbage just like that huh? Did you even read my post? As I already stated for anyone who isn't really familiar with E-verify and I-9 forms none of this would make much sense to you. For those of you who work with these systems, you'd most likely understand where I'm coming from and would agree that this would make the system extremely effective.
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:08 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Wow, you're just going to toss my idea in the garbage just like that huh? Did you even read my post? As I already stated for anyone who isn't really familiar with E-verify and I-9 forms none of this would make much sense to you. For those of you who work with these systems, you'd most likely understand where I'm coming from and would agree that this would make the system extremely effective.
Your idea is good if you think we need improvement to a system that is already over 95% efffective. I have no qualms with improving it even more. However, I do agree with Benicar, biometrics could be another added feature to make it more effective.
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Wow, you're just going to toss my idea in the garbage just like that huh? Did you even read my post? As I already stated for anyone who isn't really familiar with E-verify and I-9 forms none of this would make much sense to you. For those of you who work with these systems, you'd most likely understand where I'm coming from and would agree that this would make the system extremely effective.
As the Director of Employee Services for 13 years for a large government contractor, I recruited and hired employees nationwide. Therefore, I am VERY familiar with I-9 forms. You assume a little too much.

I stand by my previous comments. Any document issued by the government can be easily replicated by professional document forgers. But, they damn sure can’t fake DNA.
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,249,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Your idea is good if you think we need improvement to a system that is already over 95% efffective. I have no qualms with improving it even more. However, I do agree with Benicar, biometrics could be another added feature to make it more effective.
The great thing about my method though, it is it cost effective. E-verify is really cheap to use, literally all the employer needs is a computer with the internet. If you want to go the biometrics route, why not add retinal scans too? How about requiring everyone in the U.S. to have a barcode tattooed to their left butt cheek and we can use a scantron to determine their employee authorization? You have to understand that many employers do not have the money to equip all of their sites with this type of technology. A quick easy change to the I-9 form and it's use with E-verify and bam, no more employment fraud.

Also, please do not use the 95-97% effectiveness of the current E-verify. As somebody who sees how the system works from the employer end there is no way that data is close to accurate.
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Old 10-14-2010, 03:28 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
The great thing about my method though, it is it cost effective. E-verify is really cheap to use, literally all the employer needs is a computer with the internet. If you want to go the biometrics route, why not add retinal scans too? How about requiring everyone in the U.S. to have a barcode tattooed to their left butt cheek and we can use a scantron to determine their employee authorization? You have to understand that many employers do not have the money to equip all of their sites with this type of technology. A quick easy change to the I-9 form and it's use with E-verify and bam, no more employment fraud.

Also, please do not use the 95-97% effectiveness of the current E-verify. As somebody who sees how the system works from the employer end there is no way that data is close to accurate.
Q. Is it true that E-Verify makes an unacceptable amount of mistakes by erroneously flagging legal workers as unauthorized causing them to be fired?

A. No, the percentage of E-Verify errors being excessively high is a myth (http://www.dhs.gov/journal/leadership/2008/05/debunking-e-verify-error-rate.html - broken link). And so is the myth (http://www.dhs.gov/journal/leadership/2008/05/debunking-e-verify-capacity-problem.html - broken link) that E-Verify doesn't have the capacity to handle the heavy load that would result if many states adopt laws requiring its use. Workers cannot be fired without being given the chance to correct their records. In fact, E-Verify gives legal workers with Social Security errors a chance to fix their records now rather than when they reach the age of 65 and find out they haven't been credited for decades of work. Three more myths.


Q. Can illegal workers fool the system?

A. The only way an illegal immigrant worker has in the past been able to fool E-Verify, was by using a work document such as a green card and a social security card containing information belonging to another legal worker and doctored with a photo of himself. However with the mandatory use of the E-Verify photo tool now in effect, an illegal immigrant worker's document containing someone else's information would be revealed as fraudulent if the photo downloaded from the DHS did not match the photo on green card.

E-Verify For You FAQ
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Old 10-14-2010, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Q. Is it true that E-Verify makes an unacceptable amount of mistakes by erroneously flagging legal workers as unauthorized causing them to be fired?

A. No, the percentage of E-Verify errors being excessively high is a myth (http://www.dhs.gov/journal/leadership/2008/05/debunking-e-verify-error-rate.html - broken link). And so is the myth (http://www.dhs.gov/journal/leadership/2008/05/debunking-e-verify-capacity-problem.html - broken link) that E-Verify doesn't have the capacity to handle the heavy load that would result if many states adopt laws requiring its use. Workers cannot be fired without being given the chance to correct their records. In fact, E-Verify gives legal workers with Social Security errors a chance to fix their records now rather than when they reach the age of 65 and find out they haven't been credited for decades of work. Three more myths.


Q. Can illegal workers fool the system?

A. The only way an illegal immigrant worker has in the past been able to fool E-Verify, was by using a work document such as a green card and a social security card containing information belonging to another legal worker and doctored with a photo of himself. However with the mandatory use of the E-Verify photo tool now in effect, an illegal immigrant worker's document containing someone else's information would be revealed as fraudulent if the photo downloaded from the DHS did not match the photo on green card.

E-Verify For You FAQ
There you have it. With the changes recently implemented, the system is now quite effective. I would certainly expect anyone currently involved with E-Verify to be aware of this. What’s not to like?
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:19 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,287,998 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Illegals and their enablers are adept at document fraud. Consequently, anything short of biometrics will not suffice. If our government would stringently enforce ALL of our immigration laws, we would not even need E-Verify.
BINGO, AND RIGHT YOU ARE Benicar, how very utterly true. If our Goernment acutally gave a damn about our illegal problem, we would not have any of these problems that we expereince now.This administration more then all others, does not know the meaning of inforce. And others past, have also failed us.
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