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Old 09-21-2012, 08:07 AM
 
31,888 posts, read 14,685,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Both of you say that he "broke our immigration laws", but it was at an age that he was not culpable. With both parents dead when he was child in Guatemala, there was a good chance of "starving in his home country". He was put with foster families, whom seemed to appreciate his helpful presence in the household. Finishing school, he wanted to be an architect.

But he also wanted to give something more back to his adopted country, and became a U.S. Marine...

Now buried in Guatemala, what is your description, good, bad, or neutral, that he had on the United States? Is there any possible redemption that he can receive in your eyes for being a 14 year-old child caught as he entered this country? It was the policies of other prior administrations that allowed him to remain here as a ward of the state.

I was surprised that he hasn't been sponsored for posthumous U.S. citizenship. But the actual narrative plays better here. What are the contrasts to supporting someone like Leland Davidson, whom I've brought up before?
A 14 year old is not a child and knows right from wrong. So he had no family in Guatamala after his parents died? I find that hard to believe.

All I am saying is that he doesn't deserve special recognition above other soldiers that have died serving our country. They all should be honored equally if they joined out of love for our country.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:57 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,390,175 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
How would he have waited his "legal turn to be admitted" if there is no one to sponsor him? Does one just fill out some application and wait to be able to come to the United States? Is it that he just had the notion that he could somehow do better here (going awry when he was immediately caught), by what he had to do, the reason for your dislike?

Is he better defined by the term of once being an illegal alien, or a Marine that lost his life in combat for the principles of the United States? I'm trying to reconcile how deep the stigma of illegal immigration goes. You do realize that there are people that once were illegal aliens that became U.S. citizens, don't you?

Lance Corporal Gutierrez's story is notable. I see the other side of a 14 year-old boy with both parents dead, making the fateful decision to come to America. Rumor has that my Great Great Grandmother and her two male siblings had the same circumstance in front of them in their teens as well (she would have been 14 when her brother William left, and 17 when she and brother Henry followed). It wasn't just the pull of Deadwood gold for all three to leave Germany behind.

And they didn't even do any war service for their new country (Henry died at age 32 in a mine accident), that had to wait until grandchildren descendants (and beyond, like me)...

At least "Oldglory" said Lance Corporal Gutierrez deserved some kind of honor for his service, as much as any other U.S. servicemember who has died for their, errrm, our country...

Thank You for your service as well, "Oldglory", are you willing to pass that same respect to me?...
You always miss the point. The entire world is not entitled to American citizenship. Americans do not have sole responsibility to make life easier and better for every junior high school dropout who does not speak English and wants a better life.

One illegal who manages not to commit further crimes does not exonerate all illegals of their crimes.



You're always telling us anyway that if yet another illegal murders or robs someone or mugs then that does not mean that all illegals are bad. Yet if one illegal does something that does not suck (although I think rational people can agree that illegals shouldn't even be allowed to enlist in our military as they have no loyalty to this country) then suddenly all illegals are just fine.

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Old 09-21-2012, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,020,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
You always miss the point. The entire world is not entitled to American citizenship. Americans do not have sole responsibility to make life easier and better for every junior high school dropout who does not speak English and wants a better life...
Most illegal aliens, as well as much of the entire world, will never be able to gain U.S. citizenship. Lance Corporal Gutierrez didn't even though he was killed in action as a U.S. Marine. He graduated High School here (intending for a university degree as an architect), learned English, and wanted to give back to the United States for his better life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
...One illegal who manages not to commit further crimes does not exonerate all illegals of their crimes.



You're always telling us anyway that if yet another illegal murders or robs someone or mugs then that does not mean that all illegals are bad. Yet if one illegal does something that does not suck (although I think rational people can agree that illegals shouldn't even be allowed to enlist in our military as they have no loyalty to this country) then suddenly all illegals are just fine.

I'm just looking for that one example of anyone that even had a day as an illegal alien, that you can at least acknowledge as a decent enough of human being...

After all, what is your view on Aliyah Bet?...
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:47 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,840,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Most illegal aliens, as well as much of the entire world, will never be able to gain U.S. citizenship. Lance Corporal Gutierrez didn't even though he was killed in action as a U.S. Marine. He graduated High School here (intending for a university degree as an architect), learned English, and wanted to give back to the United States for his better life.



I'm just looking for that one example of anyone that even had a day as an illegal alien, that you can at least acknowledge as a decent enough of human being...

After all, what is your view on Aliyah Bet?...
Obviously not all illegals are axe murderers or rapists. And really what good is American citizenship when we're the one country in the whole world where citizenship has been made meaningless?

All other nations have immigration laws. But to be a citizen in the USA means you can't just pack up and move whenever you please to other countries, not even to Mexico even if you badly need a job. A citizen of the USA essentially has to compete with the entire world for jobs in this country. Unlimited numbers can come in and take American jobs, we cannot go to their countries and take their jobs.

While many Americans are losing jobs, losing their homes, losing their entire future, the foreigners are doing exceptionally well.

Remittances to Mexico rise nearly 5 pct | Fox News Latino

Not only were remittances to Mexico way up in 2011, they're up even more in 2012.
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
3,718 posts, read 4,609,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
There's not enough graffitti or urban renewal in the US.
In terms of making a place more upkeep, urban renewal is a good thing.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:28 AM
 
444 posts, read 416,674 times
Reputation: 285
What a surprising thread! so many of you claim to be libertarians. You do realize that libertarians believe in the free circulation of workers. See their 2004 platform. It called for "the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally" as the libertarians aim to find the cheapest workers available - legal residents or not.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:30 AM
 
31,888 posts, read 14,685,001 times
Reputation: 8502
Quote:
Originally Posted by transatlantic View Post
What a surprising thread! so many of you claim to be libertarians. You do realize that libertarians believe in the free circulation of workers. See their 2004 platform. It called for "the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally" as the libertarians aim to find the cheapest workers available - legal residents or not.
I am not a libertarian nor would I ever be with your description of their agenda.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:36 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,115,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usc619 View Post
Thirty Reasons You Should Support Illegal Immigration and Amnesty for Illegal Aliens

1. America's health care system and emergency rooms are not crowded enough.

2. The U.S. needs more organized, violent gangs. Currently the U.S. has Salvadoran gangs; Vietnamese gangs, Filipino gangs, Armenian gangs, Russian gangs, Chinese gangs; Cambodian gangs; Bulgarian gangs, Dominican gangs, Mexican gangs, Haitian gangs. Continuing unrestricted immigration will increase this "diversity."

3. The U.S. carbon footprint is not large enough. Millions more immigrants will swell the population to enlarge the country's carbon footprint.

4. U.S. highways are not crowded enough. More traffic is needed.

5. The percentage of U.S. land that is not yet paved over and developed is far too small.

6. Prior to the days of unrestricted immigration the U.S. lacked a sufficient "diversity" of serious diseases. Unrestricted and illegal immigration has remedied that situation by reintroducing diseases formerly wiped out in the US and introducing new ones never before seen here: Leprosy, dengue fever, West Nile virus, treatment resistant TB, polio..

7. The U.S. needs more 9/11 style attacks. The 9/11 mass murderers were able to hide in plain sight among millions of other illegal aliens. In order to help future terrorists we must maintain a massive population of illegals.

8. Immigration lawyers need more business.

9. There is insufficient racial, ethnic, religious strife in the U.S. Immigration will provide a welcome increase.

10. Continuing high levels of immigration from the Mideast and Mexico guarantees that the number of voters who want to abandon Israel to destruction by its Muslim neighbors.

11. The U.S. does not have enough front groups for Hamas, Hezbollah and other Islamic terrorist organizations. Continued unrestricted immigration will enlarge the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and groups like it to rectify this lack.

12. The demonstrated propensity of Latin-American illegal aliens to drive while drunk will provide the needed increase in DUI's and additional deaths of innocent Americans.

13. The ACLU favors illegal immigration.

14. Rev. Jeremiah Wright and the church to which he belongs (United Church of Christ) favor illegal immigration.

15. The Democrat, Republican Parties and other extreme left wing groups support illegal immigration.

16. Americans who have lived all their lives in the US currently have far too much medical care available to them and their quality of life must be reduced. That reduction can most easily be achieved by legalizing 20 to 30 million illegal aliens so they are eligible for the "free" benefits" of Obama's(formally Regan's) scheme. See reason 17

17. Obama's appointment of Donald Berwick, supporter of rationing of health care and central planning, will mean that even more of America's health care assets will be diverted from Americans who have paid taxes for decades to newly arrived lawbreakers.

18. America's schools are not crowded enough.

19. Only fifty-five languages are spoken the Los Angeles public school system. The cost and confusion created by this diversity has lowered quality a great deal, but it is possible to do worse.

20. With millions more poor illegals there will be a greater need for social workers, welfare workers, public school teachers and aides, more school lunch programs, more prisons, more police, more government workers of every kind. This will enlarge the number of voters reliant on the government for paychecks and will swell the membership rolls of the National Education Association, AFSCME, SEIU and other Democrat organizations.

21. The Democrat Party needs more voters and the Republican party needs more cheap labor for their big doners.

22. The U.S. needs more socialism/Marxism. Adding tens of millions of poor immigrants demanding taxpayer-paid services guarantees the continued descent into loss of individual liberty.

23. The U.S. already produces too much petroleum. A larger population will make us even more dependent on foreign oil.

24. There is not enough urban sprawl in the U.S.

25. The Catholic Church's membership is increased by unrestricted immigration.

26. Not enough of Texas and Arizona's citizens have been murdered.

27. The Police Chiefs of Los Angeles, Salt Lake City, Phoenix and other political hacks don't want to pick and choose which laws to enforce. More illegals will give them greater leeway to not enforce laws that adversely affect illegal aliens.

28. Tyson Foods(the owner is a big republican) needs more illegal alien employees

29. George Soros, a Nazi collaborator in World War 2 needs more lawbreakers in the U.S. who are beholden to his many open borders front groups.

30. Illegal alien gangs have not yet murdered enough African-Americans in Southern California. This process of ethnic cleansing is best accomplished by unrestricted immigration.
Don't forget about forcing us to speak Spanish.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Louisiana
1,740 posts, read 2,936,921 times
Reputation: 563
The Brits have provided this theme song for part of the immigration movement.


Brand New Leather Jacket - YouTube
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