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Old 10-25-2010, 01:31 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,479,957 times
Reputation: 2661

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
Well, I guess that would be a good reason to throw anchor baby legislation into the mix then.

Are you saying we don't have enough high school drop outs in our country so we should "import" a few?

Maybe you need to "read" a few credible sources.
As a general rule people lacking a high school diploma are a tremendous drain on the society. Far, far worse than any illegal impact.

One of the reason I personally oppose illegal immigration is that it is far too low skilled. We don't need more people lacking high school education.

Now you really don't understand that? How can you have opinions on this issue without understanding all that? Do you believe we should set immigration policy to protect those who don't graduate high school? How would you do that?

Some of you don't seem to have much of a grasp of the immigration issues.
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Old 10-25-2010, 01:52 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
Reputation: 17682
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
As a general rule people lacking a high school diploma are a tremendous drain on the society. Far, far worse than any illegal impact.

One of the reason I personally oppose illegal immigration is that it is far too low skilled. We don't need more people lacking high school education.

Now you really don't understand that? How can you have opinions on this issue without understanding all that? Do you believe we should set immigration policy to protect those who don't graduate high school? How would you do that?

Some of you don't seem to have much of a grasp of the immigration issues.
Answer us just these questions. If these Illegals were so valuable to our economy why aren't Countries fighting to keep them. If they are so valuable why aren't States trying to keep them? Why are States and Countries doing everything they can to rid themselves of them?

I think the answer is quite simple.
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:36 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
I have been around these lists far longer than you. I have never seen such data. I have seen innumerable right wing talking points entirely lacking in reality but no real data. I have carefully read the realistic publications of both the pro and anti illegal organization and am quite comfortable that no data exists on either side showing large economic impact.

I would also not that NV, which has perhaps the largest per capita illegal population appears to have little trouble with illegals while AZ next door and with a lower level of illegals has terrible problems. Could it be the nature of the state rather than the level of illegals?

The argument against border strengthening and enforcement is that it is simple impractical. Until the problem is reduced to a manageable size there is not the money, resources or will to fix it. Note that CA polls in the last few days continue to indicate basic support for regularization of the illegals. How on earth do you enforce our immigrations laws when the most populous state will not cooperate?

The word by the way is sovereignty. Why I don't approve of the spelling police there are places where one should be careful...this is one.
It is "simply" not "simple. Pot, kettle, black.

How do you know that illegals have not negatively impacted Nevada? You have some stats other than left wing talking points on that? Nevada of course would not have the drug trafficing problem that Arizona does because it is not a border state.

Calif. has always been a liberal, left wing state. Nothing surprises me about it. Add to that the fact that it has one of the highest populations of Hispancs both legal and illegal and that Calif. is now a majority minority state and you have proven nothing about the pulse of this entire nation.

Here try this one for stats about the negative impact of illegals in L.A. county alone. Since this research was done by an L.A. county supervisor I don't know how you can argue with it but you probably will anyway. I am still waiting for you to counter my rule of law argument rather than the economic and social impacts of illegal immigration. Can't, can you?

Antonovich: 2009 welfare costs for children of illegal aliens top $500 million
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:22 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,479,957 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It is "simply" not "simple. Pot, kettle, black.

How do you know that illegals have not negatively impacted Nevada? You have some stats other than left wing talking points on that? Nevada of course would not have the drug trafficing problem that Arizona does because it is not a border state.

Calif. has always been a liberal, left wing state. Nothing surprises me about it. Add to that the fact that it has one of the highest populations of Hispancs both legal and illegal and that Calif. is now a majority minority state and you have proven nothing about the pulse of this entire nation.

Here try this one for stats about the negative impact of illegals in L.A. county alone. Since this research was done by an L.A. county supervisor I don't know how you can argue with it but you probably will anyway. I am still waiting for you to counter my rule of law argument rather than the economic and social impacts of illegal immigration. Can't, can you?

Antonovich: 2009 welfare costs for children of illegal aliens top $500 million
I need not get past the headline. It says children of illegal aliens. Those are not illegal aliens.

And that illustrates my point - you guys always push numbers that do not deal with illegal aliens but with their legal children. Don't.
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:37 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
I need not get past the headline. It says children of illegal aliens. Those are not illegal aliens.

And that illustrates my point - you guys always push numbers that do not deal with illegal aliens but with their legal children. Don't.
If not for the presence of illegal aliens in this country we wouldn't be paying for their social costs nor their illegal kids they drag with them. If they weren't here giving birth on our soil we wouldn't be bearing the costs of birthing their anchors and the ensuing costs afterwords quoted in this article. That is the point that you fail to get.
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Old 10-25-2010, 05:31 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,479,957 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
If not for the presence of illegal aliens in this country we wouldn't be paying for their social costs nor their illegal kids they drag with them. If they weren't here giving birth on our soil we wouldn't be bearing the costs of birthing their anchors and the ensuing costs afterwords quoted in this article. That is the point that you fail to get.
Alternate universe stuff. If the illegals were not in LA someone else would be...legal aliens or poor people out of the border south...who knows. The kids would still be there - and they might well rate even more help than the illegals can get...so the LA cost could well be higher if the illegals were not present.

Note that is one of the arguments used by CIS against amnestry...if you legalize the illegals the cost of welfare and related programs goes up by billions of dollars...that is because illegals are cheaper to the government than legals.

Note that crime goes up as well when you replace the illegals with legals...

So LA would get more costs and more crime by removing the illegals.

Note this does not hold that there would be no reduction in US population if the illegals were removed. But end game the reductions will be in Paducah KY...not in LA or Las Vegas.
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Old 10-25-2010, 05:33 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
Reputation: 17682
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
I need not get past the headline. It says children of illegal aliens. Those are not illegal aliens.

And that illustrates my point - you guys always push numbers that do not deal with illegal aliens but with their legal children. Don't.
Answer us just these questions. If these Illegals were so valuable to our economy why aren't Countries fighting to keep them. If they are so valuable why aren't States fighting to keep them? Why are States and Countries doing everything they can to be rid of them? If they are such a valuable commodity, right?

I think the answer is quite simple.
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Old 10-25-2010, 05:47 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Answer us just these questions. If these Illegals were so valuable to our economy why aren't Countries fighting to keep them. If they are so valuable why aren't States fighting to keep them? Why are States and Countries doing everything they can to be rid of them? If they are such a valuable commodity, right?

I think the answer is quite simple.
Don't hold your breath for a direct answer. My main objection to illegal immigration is the rule of law and our right to soveirgn borders and I have stated as such. For some reason that never gets addressed by the pro-illegals. So they then try to jusify illegal immigration by claiming that it is an asset to all Americans. Makes me wonder what each of their ulterior motives and vested interest in illegal immigration actually is. Employer greed, ethnocentric racism, reconquista agenda, relative who is Hispanic or an illegal alien themselves, a far left liberal white guilt kook? Whichever catagory they fit into they won't admit to it.

Last edited by chicagonut; 10-25-2010 at 06:16 PM..
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Old 10-25-2010, 05:52 PM
 
358 posts, read 332,608 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
As a general rule people lacking a high school diploma are a tremendous drain on the society. Far, far worse than any illegal impact.

One of the reason I personally oppose illegal immigration is that it is far too low skilled. We don't need more people lacking high school education.

Now you really don't understand that? How can you have opinions on this issue without understanding all that? Do you believe we should set immigration policy to protect those who don't graduate high school? How would you do that?

Some of you don't seem to have much of a grasp of the immigration issues.
With all due respect, you are missing a few very important points. The difference between illegal immigrants and American drops outs is this: AMERICAN. Very simple, not a complicated point, but means a world of difference. Not to mention an American drop out still has a certain level of education, understanding of societal duties, etc. You do not find this with illegal immigrants. Now that you have me on the subject... let us examine the wonderful impact of future Americans born of illegal immigrants.
"Despite sixty years of political and legal battles to improve the education of Mexican Americans, they continue to have the lowest average education levels and the highest high school dropout rates among major ethnic and racial groups in the United States. ... However, leading analysts, apparently believing in the universality of assimilation, argue that this is the result of a large first and second generation population still adjusting to American society. ... These and other scholars predict that Mexican Americans will have the same levels of education and socioeconomic status as the dominant non-Hispanic white population by the fourth generation."
Sounds good right???
"Sadly and directly in contradistinction to assimilation theory, the fourth generation differs the most from whites, with a college completion rate of only 6 percent [compared to 35 percent for whites of that era]."
The fourth generation Baby Boomers averaged 0.7 years less schooling than the second and third generation Mexican Americans born in the same era.
"...the educational progress of Mexican Americans does not improve over the generations. At best, given the statistical margin of error, our data show no improvement in education over the generations-since-immigration and in some cases even suggest a decline."
In 2000, the UCLA interviewers also asked the Baby Boomer children of the original subjects about their own children (i.e., the grandchildren of the 1965 respondents). These grandchildren (who are third to fifth generation Mexican Americans, Generation X-ers born in the 1960s and 1970s) "seemed to be doing no better than their parents" at graduating from high school.
You really need to do more research, I could go on all day about the findings of the study. I would suggest you purchase the book.. or send me your address and I will gladly mail you my copy: Generations of exclusions: Mexican Americans, gender and race. Telles and Ortiz.
Can I ask you a serious question? are you the product of illegal immigrant parents or are you just that intellectually sterile? the issue of illegal immigration and it's impact is very easy to determine if you experience the effects firsthand, and I mean no disrespect with my question.
YAC: the excerpts from this book are in no way a copyright violation and are of no monetary gain to me. I would ask that you do not "edit" my quotes from a 500 page book, under the Fair Use Rule my posting meets all legal criteria. Thank you.
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Old 10-26-2010, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
I need not get past the headline. It says children of illegal aliens. Those are not illegal aliens.

And that illustrates my point - you guys always push numbers that do not deal with illegal aliens but with their legal children. Don't.
The children of illegal aliens are a tremendous drain on taxpayers, whether U.S. or foreign-born. NONE should be here, period. I am sick of my hard-earned taxes paying for the children of foreign parasites who have no respect for our laws, and feel nothing but disdain for this country.
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