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Old 11-09-2010, 01:47 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,384,142 times
Reputation: 1544

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
Just who is it that you keep speaking of that is Demanding you learn spanish? when has anyone come up to up and ..."IN SPANISH" ans DEMANDED anything of YOU?

If the Federqal government puts out information in the different languages spoken in this country...then that between you and the Federal/State/Municipal government doing so. No Ethinic group legal or otherwise is forcing/demanding that consideration.

Speak to how this language burden harms you?

Citizens in the USA are being required to speak Spanish to obtain jobs. Could that be yet another way of delivering the jobs in this country to illegals? You know, the jobs Americans won't do?

When this happens in MY country, and yes it is MY country because I am a citizen, it is a burden that harms ME!

And call me racist or bigotted or anything you want because I don't care. It doesn't affect me anymore. You see, I'm just trying to feed MY family and that is my right in MY country.

Thank God for the change of administration in this country and that so many governors are getting involved with this invasion. I think it's time that the citizens of the USA start making the demands.

 
Old 11-09-2010, 01:52 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,384,142 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
According to this statement you must have a gripe every time a mentally retarded person moves into your neighborhood or anyone who suffered a severe brain injury while defending the country or from a major auto accident and now anytime you interact with these individuals you have to put up with their educational deficits....hmm, how insensitive of you.

I have worked with Developmentally Disabled people in my lifetime and they are kind and wonderful people. There are services in place in this country to help them if they are CITIZENS. Your attack was unfounded and to use the disabled to try to further your cause to allow an invasion of illegal interlopers into this country is much lower than insensitive.
 
Old 11-09-2010, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,254,394 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Slig himself apparently thinks that every single American ought to take Spanish lessons because Mexicans believe they can declare themselves American citizens merely by walking across the border without permission.
I know alot of Mexican immigrants and I've never heard a single one declaring US citizenship unless they actually went through the citizenship process

Quote:
Insensitive is moving to another land and telling the people already there they have to learn your language because you don't want to learn theirs.
Once again, nobody is doing that. All people are saying is that it's advantageous to you to learn another language. If you don't want to, then don't...nobody is forcing you to.
 
Old 11-09-2010, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,254,394 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
I have worked with Developmentally Disabled people in my lifetime and they are kind and wonderful people. There are services in place in this country to help them if they are CITIZENS. Your attack was unfounded and to use the disabled to try to further your cause to allow an invasion of illegal interlopers into this country is much lower than insensitive.
That was my interpretation of a statement that was made that was clearly not well thought out before it was posted and nothing else.

The lack of acceptance to first-generation immigrants who don't speak English as their primary language is absolutely dumbfounding. Seriously, get over it.
 
Old 11-09-2010, 02:34 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,386,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I know alot of Mexican immigrants and I've never heard a single one declaring US citizenship unless they actually went through the citizenship process.
Which is part of the problem. They expect to live in the United States but not live up to any American cultural norms. They expect that Americans will gladly welcome them but they show this country no reason to do so. They break our laws, demand welfare benefits for their children, refuse to learn English and then label us racists when we dare complain.

Quote:
Once again, nobody is doing that. All people are saying is that it's advantageous to you to learn another language. If you don't want to, then don't...nobody is forcing you to.
I know another language and I am teaching it to my daughter. Your problem seems to be that you (and your fellow illegal advocates) think that Americans should learn one foreign language and one foreign language only: Spanish.

The other problem that you are ignoring in this thread is the rise of jobs where Spanish is required. That's nothing more than pandering to the ignorant and lazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
That was my interpretation of a statement that was made that was clearly not well thought out before it was posted and nothing else.

The lack of acceptance to first-generation immigrants who don't speak English as their primary language is absolutely dumbfounding. Seriously, get over it.
These are not first-generation immigrants. These people are illegal migrants. Please do not insult people by conflating the two.

The belief that illegal migrants should be catered to in any way -- let alone to the point of hiring expensive interpreters and essentially demanding that Americans learng Spanish -- is dumbfounding.

Seriously you move the United States you need to learn English BEFORE you get here. You can't, won't or don't then go home.

First generation immigrants -- immigrants who were here a hundred years ago -- at American request -- did NOT expect that people would speak Polish, Yiddish or Italian in the United States. They most certainly did not expect bilingual education, subsidized interpreters or that Americans would learn their languages.

You have yet to make a case why the rules should be different today. Americans can attract the smartest people in the world. Why should we bend over backwards to meet the needs of poorly educated monolingual Mexicans who refuse to obey our immigration laws?
 
Old 11-09-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,254,394 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Which is part of the problem. They expect to live in the United States but not live up to any American cultural norms. They expect that Americans will gladly welcome them but they show this country no reason to do so. They break our laws, demand welfare benefits for their children, refuse to learn English and then label us racists when we dare complain.
Quit generalizing. There may be a select few who fit into this category but none of the ones I know demand welfare benefits, refuse to learn English and label people as racists when people complain.

Quote:
I know another language and I am teaching it to my daughter. Your problem seems to be that you (and your fellow illegal advocates) think that Americans should learn one foreign language and one foreign language only: Spanish.
Thanks for putting words into my mouth....I never said that, nor do I believe that. Also, whoever you're referring to is not my illegal advocate and I don't consider myself an illegal advocate. I would consider myself more of an anti-ignorance advocate. I'm happy for you for teaching your daughter a foreign language. Hopefully it's a language she'll be able to get some use out of. Where I live there are alot of people who speak English, Spanish, Somali, Arabic and Hmong so I personally find those languages to be the most useful. Mandarin Chinese would be another useful language to learn.

Quote:
The other problem that you are ignoring in this thread is the rise of jobs where Spanish is required. That's nothing more than pandering to the ignorant and lazy.
I love this. Every time I see a job where Spanish is required or prefer it makes me glad I made the effort to become fluent in it. I rule.

Quote:
These are not first-generation immigrants. These people are illegal migrants. Please do not insult people by conflating the two.
The language points refer to first-generation immigrants from Spanish speaking countries, legal and illegal. It isn't like all the legal immigrants learn English and the illegal ones don't, and if you think otherwise you're mistaken.

Quote:
Seriously you move the United States you need to learn English BEFORE you get here. You can't, won't or don't then go home.
Look at the USCIS website. There is no English proficiency requirement in order to come to the United States. English isn't even our official language...so this is a completely baseless point.

Quote:
First generation immigrants -- immigrants who were here a hundred years ago -- at American request -- did NOT expect that people would speak Polish, Yiddish or Italian in the United States. They most certainly did not expect bilingual education, subsidized interpreters or that Americans would learn their languages.
If you look back in history first generation immigrants would come to the US speaking their foreign language and would go through essentially the same process that current immigrants go through...nothing has changed.

Quote:
You have yet to make a case why the rules should be different today. Americans can attract the smartest people in the world. Why should we bend over backwards to meet the needs of poorly educated monolingual Mexicans who refuse to obey our immigration laws?
I don't know where you drew these conclusions as I never said otherwise. I keep repeating in every post I make that nobody is requiring anybody to learn Spanish or to bend over backwards for anybody...and I'm now saying it again.
 
Old 11-09-2010, 03:00 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,386,453 times
Reputation: 2345
One more comment.

The Mexican government is well aware that many of their citizens want to immigrate to the United States. Why don't Mexican officials make far more of an effort to educate their own damned citizens in English? They know their citizens are coming here in massive numbers. Why don't they do more to prepare them for life in the United States? Why oh why do they not teach them as much English as possible?

Why is it that the default response seems to be this sort of repulsive brazen arrogance that says that Americans are evil racist *******s for daring to believe that if you live in the United States you should be fluent in the dominant language?

I think that's what annoys me most almost. Much of the opposition to illegal migration might die down if the attitude and sense of entitlement in the migrant community wasn't so focused on this belief that migrants have rights but no responsibilities at all.

I think we can acknowlege that learning a second language is hard. But where do illegal migrants get the nerve to believe that such a burden is on someone else's shoulders rather than their own?
 
Old 11-09-2010, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,254,394 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
One more comment.

The Mexican government is well aware that many of their citizens want to immigrate to the United States. Why don't Mexican officials make far more of an effort to educate their own damned citizens in English? They know their citizens are coming here in massive numbers. Why don't they do more to prepare them for life in the United States? Why oh why do they not teach them as much English as possible?
What do you expect them to do? Send all their citizens to government sponsored ESL classes? I'm sorry but this is just unrealistic at this point. I'm not sure how much you know about Mexico, but the government has far more serious issues they need to focus on at this point, and not to mention that the money isn't there to be funding these types of programs.

Quote:
Why is it that the default response seems to be this sort of repulsive brazen arrogance that says that Americans are evil racist *******s for daring to believe that if you live in the United States you should be fluent in the dominant language?
Once again, it sounds like you're basing your opinions off a few select people who are part of radical immigration groups and not on the population as a whole. I don't know anybody who is like this, and I am heavily involved in the Hispanic community.
 
Old 11-09-2010, 03:25 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,386,453 times
Reputation: 2345
Slig,

Do think Americans should have the right to set borders? To declare who gets to come here and who does not? Do you think there should be penalties for breaking our immigration laws? Do you think people who move to the United States should EVER have to learn English? Do you think someone who does not speak English and lives here for twenty years should be allocated personal interpreters at public expense?

Do Americans have any rights at all? Or are we just supposed to spent all our waking hours learning every single language on the planet and making sure that everyone -- particularly people from Mexico -- has all they want and need?

Or maybe, just maybe, do you think that when you come to another country that perhaps, just perhaps YOU SHOULD LEARN THE LANGUAGE OF THE COUNTRY BEFORE YOU LEAVE?

And if you don't you really have no right to whine that your neighbors don't want you around?

This "debate" is ridiculous. Illegal migrants have no right making demands that Americans cater to their failure to learn English. Legal immigrants should learn English or leave. I can only imagine the outrage in the hispanic community were Americans to move to a Latin country and make similar insane demands.
 
Old 11-09-2010, 03:36 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,386,453 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
What do you expect them to do? Send all their citizens to government sponsored ESL classes? I'm sorry but this is just unrealistic at this point. I'm not sure how much you know about Mexico, but the government has far more serious issues they need to focus on at this point, and not to mention that the money isn't there to be funding these types of programs.
So the Mexican government shouldn't even dream of teaching English in Mexican schools but the American government should make every effort to insure that every single American is fluent in Spanish?

Sorry but we have other priorities other than catering to the needs of monolingual law breaking migrants. Why do you think it realistic for Americans to teach their kids Spanish but unrealistic for Mexican planning to come the US illegally to teach their kids English?

Carlos Slim is the world's richest man and a Mexican national. Let him finance ESL classes since he probably benefits the most from illegal Mexican migration to the US.

Quote:
Once again, it sounds like you're basing your opinions off a few select people who are part of radical immigration groups and not on the population as a whole. I don't know anybody who is like this, and I am heavily involved in the Hispanic community.
And you're basing your opinions on your own beliefs. So what? I read what the Mexican government says. I read what illegal migration advocacy groups state all the time. I'm repulsed at their arrogance.

The fact is that most illegal migrants are from Mexico. That says a lot to me about their failure to respect our laws and their ludicrous sense of entitlement. American immigration laws are for other people not for them.

Enough already.
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