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Old 10-31-2010, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,946,003 times
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If you want to talk "cruelty" talk to the parents of these children who care nothing for the plight they bring down on their children's heads by acting illegally.

Enough already.

 
Old 10-31-2010, 07:18 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Xenophobia. The US kids of course have a free right of return. That turns them into a different class and virtually guarantees discrimination. Why should a Mexican Teacher spend effort on a kid who is going to leave. And you can almost guarantee the US kids are going to band together for protection in a hostile environ. Guess what they are training for?

It is not great that a kid ever be pulled from a school and plunked into the middle of a foreign environment. If it is done at all it should be done for significant reasons and permanently. But it never is a good thing.
I just love this catch word "xenophobia" that the illegal alien sympathizers toss around all the time. It has nothing to do with the issue of illegal immigration at all.

Again, you are assuming a lot of things that "could" happen. Teachers are supposed to teach kids regardless of whether they remain in the country. What would that have to do with anything? Again, blame the parents for the plight of their kids. Perhaps they should encourage their kids to remain in the homeland so that they can stay together as a family. I mean I keep hearing how family oriented Mexicans and other Latinos are.

Last edited by chicagonut; 10-31-2010 at 07:33 PM..
 
Old 10-31-2010, 07:32 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Highly improbable as he is down many years in a proper spanish education...and catching up on that would virtually doom him against his peers.

And why on earth would we wish to get rid of one of the chosen ones? One of those with the intelligence and drive to aid our society particularly after we have invested the money in bringing him to fruition?

This is simply the madness of the right. The willingness to do idiotic things for rationale entirely based on emotion. You don't throw the good ones out...



He is in no way shape or form a criminal. Even if subject to deportation it will be as an administrative act...not a criminal one. And that is because he has committed no crime. He has violated no statute. Read the statute and try and apply it to a kid who came over at a year old.

I think you guys need this "criminal" fiction to avoid having to face your own cruelty. "Well it is OK because the kid is a criminal" But he is obviously not...he broke no statue. It may well be he did not enter the country illegally.

YOu have no idea what he thinks. You put thoughts in his head to justify your bigotry...your cruelty. He is simply a very bright 16 year old and culturally American. And that apparently drives you wild.
Most illegal parents retain the Spanish language at home and so do their children whether they be also illegals or anchors. They become bi-lingual when they attend our schools. They for the most part do not lose the Spanish language because often times it is the only way of communicating with their illegal parents.

Chosen ones? We don't need anymore foreingers competing for jobs against Americans whether they be white collar or blue collar workers. Their counties can take advantage of the education they received on our dime and make use of them to improve their own countries.

I wondered when you'd get around to hurling insults such as calling us cruel bigots. You didn't disappoint. Guess you forgot that it is against the forum rules? Why would it drive us wild that he is bi-cultural? That is truly what he is. Not just mono-cultural American. The parents see to it that their kids retain the culture of their homelands along with picking up American culture.

Last edited by chicagonut; 10-31-2010 at 07:45 PM..
 
Old 10-31-2010, 09:00 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,484,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Most illegal parents retain the Spanish language at home and so do their children whether they be also illegals or anchors. They become bi-lingual when they attend our schools. They for the most part do not lose the Spanish language because often times it is the only way of communicating with their illegal parents.
They become bilingual when they join our society. I suspect kiddy TV has more impact on language skills than the school system. And they retain fluency in spoken spanish. That is a good thing.

Quote:
Chosen ones? We don't need anymore foreingers competing for jobs against Americans whether they be white collar or blue collar workers. Their counties can take advantage of the education they received on our dime and make use of them to improve their own countries.
It is not a job and the kid is one of us. You simply choose not to recognize that we have trained and groomed this individual and he is in that fraction of one percent that is important to a society. But your hate requires that he be sent back so you can feel good about your mistaken beliefs.



Quote:
wondered when you'd get around to hurling insults such as calling us cruel bigots. You didn't disappoint. Guess you forgot that it is against the forum rules? Why would it drive us wild that he is bi-cultural? That is truly what he is. Not just mono-cultural American. The parents see to it that their kids retain the culture of their homelands along with picking up American culture.
I did not call you a bigot. Are you volunteering? It does fit your thought pattern.

And no they mostly are not bicultural. They tend to be Americans. They are bilingual.
 
Old 10-31-2010, 09:31 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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[quote=olecapt;16476965]They become bilingual when they join our society. I suspect kiddy TV has more impact on language skills than the school system. And they retain fluency in spoken spanish. That is a good thing.

It is not a job and the kid is one of us. You simply choose not to recognize that we have trained and groomed this individual and he is in that fraction of one percent that is important to a society. But your hate requires that he be sent back so you can feel good about your mistaken beliefs.

Are we talking about anchors or illegal alien kids now? Again with your insults calling me a hater. Who am I supposedly hating? There is no need for harsh words like that attached to our mere objection to illegals in our country.




I did not call you a bigot. Are you volunteering? It does fit your thought pattern.

And no they mostly are not bicultural. They tend to be Americans. They are bilingual.

You called our attitudes in here as one of cruel bigots and now you say it fits my thought pattern but you're not calling me a bigot? WTH? Knock of the insults or I am going to report you. Last warning. They are bi-cultural not just Americans and I told you why that is from their parents keeping them that way. Yes they are usually bi-lingual after attending our schools. I never said otherwise.
 
Old 10-31-2010, 09:50 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,484,948 times
Reputation: 2661
[quote=chicagonut;16477252]
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post

Are we talking about anchors or illegal alien kids now? Again with your insults calling me a hater. Who am I supposedly hating? There is no need for harsh words like that attached to our mere objection to illegals in our country.
OK I will take you at your word...it is not hate. Then explain exactly what it is. Why you insist that a kid be plucked out of his normal society and thrust into another? I await your demonstration that it is not "hate".



Quote:
You called our attitudes in here as one of cruel bigots and now you say it fits my thought pattern but you're not calling me a bigot? WTH? Knock of the insults or I am going to report you. Last warning. They are bi-cultural not just Americans and I told you why that is from their parents keeping them that way. Yes they are usually bi-lingual after attending our schools. I never said otherwise.
The origination and application of "bigot" is your doing. If you feel the urge to turn yourself in...go for it. I did not use the term except in reference to your usage.

The cruelty of your position is self evident. If you don't wish to be cruel stop taking it. Even if your cause was just, which I do not believe it is, your proposition is cruel.

If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.
 
Old 11-01-2010, 01:07 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Anti fiction. YOu make this stuff up to cover your cruelty.

For most of these chidren english is their first language many can translate for their parents. They watch english TV...not spanish. They are taught in english primarily. They talk to their friends in english. By the time they are in high school they are quite unsuited to a Mexican school enviroment.

More Anti propaganda. They tend to go straight for the US stuff that is fed to them by our system. All out on the fourth of July...Sure they may enjoy Dia del Muerto as well. Why not? I marched in the St Patty's day parade a couple of years in NYC. Do you think that made me a Sinn Fein fan?...Hell I did not know I was Irish until I went to college in NYC...was not an option where I grew up.

You justify your cruelty by pointing out theirs? They obviously believed the move was good for the family and worth the risk. I would think they were correct...particulary if this amnesty eventually comes off.

So make a proposition. Let us put those children up in high quality foster homes. Let us see what that costs.

I don't have any big problems with Mexico. If I lost my wife I would likely live there. It is a nice place. For a mature single guy or even a couple.

However it would be very tough on a high school aged child raised in the US. That is how it is. Not that the Mexicans are bad...just different and running under a different culture. And note some of the kids would adopt and do fine. Particularly the younger and more flexible. But you would be sending many of these kids down the tubes. Particularly a dumb thing to do on the ones we have to take back.
Again - wrong. Most of these kids never hear a word of English until they're 8 or 9. They hear nothing but Spanish at home, when they go to school, they are placed in Spanish speaking classrooms - aka "bilingual ed" or ESL programs. They may learn some English - but they are taught that English is the second language.

They watch Mexican television, they grow up watching novelas and all the shows from Mexico or why else do you think there are are channels like Univision?

A Mexican school environment is not so terribly different than our own. They have the primaria (elementary) and the secundaria (high school) and often the education received in Mexico is better or at least as good as what these kids receive here in the schools they attend.

In Mexico, they can often learn better English - that seems ironic but very often you see people educated in Mexico with far better language skills than Mexicans educated in the USA. For some reason, those taught English in Mexico usually know how to spell and read and write it better.

As far as foster homes, I would only suggest those for those parents who refuse to take their USA born children back with them when they are returned home. Many only chose to have these children for the purpose of getting easy quick citizenship and the welfare handouts. When faced with going back home, they insist they will simply abandon these children - in these cases, the children would be better off in foster homes or put up for adoption.

In cases where the parents do love their children, obviously minor age children should be allowed to go home with their parents. When the parents go home, they usually go back where they came which means the children will have the opportunity to know their grandparents, their aunts and uncles, their cousins.

It's no different than kids born to US military families in countries like Germany. They may have their friends, be used to a school over there but no one thinks twice when they have to pack up and come home and change schools and friends. They adapt.

Now if a US born child is 18 (college age), they are no longer minors and could choose to stay here and not go home with their parents but they've reached the age where they can live on their own. So they really aren't the issue at all - send the parents home and let these kids choose where they will live.

But - in most cases, children that are still minors should be with their parents. If the parents are deported, they should take their kids with them, but if they choose to abandon them - then some arrangements for the kids are obviously needed.
 
Old 11-01-2010, 01:13 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
And the use of the word "cruel" is just emotional hysterics.

It's not *cruel* for American kids born overseas to be brought to the USA when the parents are stationed back in the USA.

And if it is *cruel*, then what of Mexican parents bringing their Mexican born kids here - will you want to have these parents charged with the crime of child cruelty? Will you insist that even legal immigrants leave their children behind because it's just so *cruel* to relocate children of any age when parents relocate?

And what does that mean for high school exchange programs where children go to foreign countries and even live with people who aren't their own families? Are these also cruel?
 
Old 11-01-2010, 01:25 AM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,946,003 times
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Speaking of cruelty - how cruel is it for parents to raise offspring they brought here illegally alongside anchor babies and watch their illegal children resent the privileges their USC siblings receive?

To subject SOME of their children to realising their siblings can get a legal DL and insurance, go onto college and qualify for Pell grants and other benefits, get a job LEGALLY while they cannot thanks to their parents' selfishness?

How cruel is it for parents to force their children to "live in the shadows" ?
 
Old 11-01-2010, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
33,949 posts, read 32,379,274 times
Reputation: 49896
That's because "hispanics" aren't a real group of people. I've always thought lumping them together was a mistake. For example, do New York Puerto Ricans or Miami Cuban Americans really care about Mexican border issues? Do Mexican American citizens really care about what's happening with the Castro brothers in Cuba/whether the US normalizes relations with Cuba or whether Puerto Rico becomes a state or not? I don't think so.

Plus, just like black and white American citizens will, if millions of poor illegal immigrants are made citizens of this country, Cuban Americans and Puerto Ricans (and Mexican American natives and naturalized citizens) will also be competing with the former illegals for jobs because once they become citizens they will not want to be "doing the jobs Americans won't do" anymore. And as American citizens, they won't have to. I'm sure as people of all origins sit unemployed they are thinking about what millions of new poor citizens competing with them in the job market means.

Your unions see them as potential new dues paying members. The Catholic Church sees them as swelling the ranks of their dwindling parishioners. And the Democrat politicians see them as new Democrat voters. It's all about power and money. It always was. But I don't think it was ever about a single group called "hispanics."
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