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Old 11-12-2010, 06:43 AM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,029,920 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Another lie. All it requires is that their parents smuggled them in by age 16 and that they either stayed in a free lunch school until graduation or they dropped out and took a GED test - and those are offered in Spanish of course. The requirements are almost as non-existent as you can get.
Not true from what I read. You're only quoting parts of the Act, neglecting the other half.

If I understand you correctly, you object to the Dream Act because it's based on lies? Sorry, malamute, but I'm missing the connection between lying and being brought to this country illegally as a child. Punish the child for the sins of the parents? They are being offered a chance at temporary citizenship .

Illegal immigrant children (even when they've reached an adult age) are not eligible for federal educational grants. American citizens are. So, what is being denied to American citizens in terms of obtaining grants for college? I don't know why you think the education would be free...unless you are referring to autonomous states agreeing to pay for it.

I realize the Act is flawed as written, but what would you do with the tens of millions of illegals in this country if not propose some sort of method to legalize at least some of them.
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,887,954 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Felina View Post
What's so awful about the DREAM act, or even some version thereof? The requirements for obtaining citizenship under this Act seem to require far more of people than a lot of Americans have accomplished. I doubt that many citizen-posters here could pass a citizenship test.
Well I missed one question on it the first time I took it just to see how I would do.
I took the test to work and folks on my team take it just to see. No one failed it. I work in a factory and many college types look down on us simple factory folks.
My wife just took the test and aced it. She has her oath ceremony next week.
My wife like most legal immigrants feels that illegals should have to do it the right way and no free passes.
I agree with her 100%. Cheaters should never be rewarded. Rewarding a cheat only encourages more of the behavior from others...
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,887,954 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Felina View Post
Not true from what I read. You're only quoting parts of the Act, neglecting the other half.

If I understand you correctly, you object to the Dream Act because it's based on lies? Sorry, malamute, but I'm missing the connection between lying and being brought to this country illegally as a child. Punish the child for the sins of the parents? They are being offered a chance at temporary citizenship .

Illegal immigrant children (even when they've reached an adult age) are not eligible for federal educational grants. American citizens are. So, what is being denied to American citizens in terms of obtaining grants for college? I don't know why you think the education would be free...unless you are referring to autonomous states agreeing to pay for it.

I realize the Act is flawed as written, but what would you do with the tens of millions of illegals in this country if not propose some sort of method to legalize at least some of them.
How about enforce the laws and force them to self deport? Have we not seen this result when states or cities crack down on illegals?
The greatest flaw in the dream act is the fact that it in fact rewards the illegals for their crimes. No matter how you weigh it out it is a reward.
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Felina View Post
Not true from what I read. You're only quoting parts of the Act, neglecting the other half.

If I understand you correctly, you object to the Dream Act because it's based on lies? Sorry, malamute, but I'm missing the connection between lying and being brought to this country illegally as a child. Punish the child for the sins of the parents? They are being offered a chance at temporary citizenship .

Illegal immigrant children (even when they've reached an adult age) are not eligible for federal educational grants. American citizens are. So, what is being denied to American citizens in terms of obtaining grants for college? I don't know why you think the education would be free...unless you are referring to autonomous states agreeing to pay for it.

I realize the Act is flawed as written, but what would you do with the tens of millions of illegals in this country if not propose some sort of method to legalize at least some of them.
If we enforce our laws, most will leave. Why should we reward lawlessness?

Quote:
Notwithstanding any provision of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1001 et seq.), with respect to assistance provided under title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1070 et seq.), an alien who adjusts status to that of a lawful permanent resident under this Act shall be eligible only for the following assistance under such title:

(1) Student loans under parts B, D, and E of such title IV (20 U.S.C. 1071 et seq., 1087a et seq., 1087aa et seq.), subject to the requirements of such parts.

(2) Federal work-study programs under part C of such title IV (42 U.S.C. 2751 et seq.), subject to the requirements of such part.

(3) Services under such title IV (20 U.S.C.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Old 11-12-2010, 07:02 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,800 posts, read 30,052,880 times
Reputation: 17689
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaVero94 View Post
[SIZE=3]I’m pretty sure that’s what your ancestor did just about a century ago(came here looking for a better opportunity and they weren’t denied were they?!, why can we have that chance, at least for us kids? The kids actually want make something out of their lives and you are denying them the chance. We ALL are not criminals, if we were given the chance to actually go to a university then im pretty sure crime rates would actually go down, dramatically. BESIDES, If I was a mom I would want any child to be able to continue their dreams just like I would want my child to too.[/SIZE]
Read up, this attempt at deflection almost (almost) jerks a tear from my eye. NOT!

You can blame your criminal Parents for side stepping our laws. You can thank your Parents for denying you the chance to come here legally. Besides, even though you are here illegally you can still PAY to attend a school. It's an insult to every American that you would imply we are "denying" you of anything. To deny someone means we took something from you. WHAT EXACTLY DID WE TAKE FROM YOU? On the other hand if we could get back the money we've already spent?

The sense of entitlement of these people is frightening. A dream should not include living off other people which is exactly where most of these people are heading if this were to pass.

Last edited by 1AngryTaxPayer; 11-12-2010 at 08:04 AM..
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Old 11-12-2010, 07:20 AM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,029,920 times
Reputation: 4225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Have either of you read the bill? The “M” acronym in the DREAM Act represents “minors.” How many minors will be attending college or joining our military? The bill will also legalize illegal alien children between the ages of 12-17 who are enrolled in primary or secondary school. Please explain how we can legalize minors without also legalizing their parents whom they rely on for support.
Yes, I have read it and understand that nothing in the Act has been finalized. But I'll have to read it again to disucss the specific points you brought up.

It seems you're only extrapolating the segments of the Act as written to substantiate your argument, rather than quoting the entire relevant segment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Furthermore, none of the DREAMies will be required to actually earn a BS/BA, because the requirement is 2 years of college, a high school diploma, or GED. How will that benefit this country?
A larger, younger work force, perhaps? Has the Act not yet been linked to the Fed's program for Agricultural Jobs...also, do you know what the connection to Border Security would be? Those are elements not written or not yet written into the Act, but proposed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If they can prove a hardship, they won’t have to fulfill ANY of the requirements. How many millions will qualify for that?
That is a blatantly false statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...Despite their illegal status, we have generously provided a tax-funded K-12 education. If that’s not enough, so be it.
Something we can agree on.
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Old 11-12-2010, 07:31 AM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,029,920 times
Reputation: 4225
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I work in a factory and many college types look down on us simple factory folks.
My wife just took the test and aced it. She has her oath ceremony next week.
...Cheaters should never be rewarded. Rewarding a cheat only encourages more of the behavior from others...
Sounds like you're the one who looks down on college type folks - ; I have no idea what your being a factory worker has to do with passing the citizenship test. Congratulations to you on having a job!

And congratulations to your wife.

I don't see how you can call a child a derogatory name, when it may not've been their choice - as a child - to come to this country. What're they supposed to do, run away from their families when they're five or six years old?

BTW, I never said I agreed with the Act as written, but something's got to be done other than this ridiculously inane notion of deporting tens of millions of people - which will never happen.
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Old 11-12-2010, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Felina View Post
It seems you're only extrapolating the segments of the Act as written to substantiate your argument, rather than quoting the entire relevant segment.
Please feel free to provide language from the bill to refute my post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Felina View Post
A larger, younger work force, perhaps? Has the Act not yet been linked to the Fed's program for Agricultural Jobs...also, do you know what the connection to Border Security would be? Those are elements not written or not yet written into the Act, but proposed.
What is the connection between the Border Patrol and the DREAM Act? Please enlighten us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Felina View Post
That is a blatantly false statement.
How do YOU interpret the following?

Quote:
(iii) demonstrates that the alien's removal from the United States would result in exceptional and extremely unusual hardship to the alien or the alien's spouse, parent, or child who is a citizen or a lawful permanent resident of the United States.

Last edited by Benicar; 11-12-2010 at 07:51 AM..
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Old 11-12-2010, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Felina View Post
Sounds like you're the one who looks down on college type folks - ; I have no idea what your being a factory worker has to do with passing the citizenship test. Congratulations to you on having a job!

And congratulations to your wife.

I don't see how you can call a child a derogatory name, when it may not've been their choice - as a child - to come to this country. What're they supposed to do, run away from their families when they're five or six years old?

BTW, I never said I agreed with the Act as written, but something's got to be done other than this ridiculously inane notion of deporting tens of millions of people - which will never happen.
Are you not aware of the exodus from areas that enact and enforce immigration laws? When Prince William County, VA passed strong anti-illegal laws, they fled to more hospitable areas. The same is true for Arizona. We don’t need to deport millions of illegals. If we remove the safe haven from every region of this country, I assure you, they will leave.

We only need to enforce our laws. They remain here because they continue to be coddled, and our laws continue to be ignored. If they can’t work, and can’t scam the system, they will have no recourse but to return home.
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Old 11-12-2010, 07:50 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,722,338 times
Reputation: 22159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Felina View Post
Not true from what I read. You're only quoting parts of the Act, neglecting the other half.

If I understand you correctly, you object to the Dream Act because it's based on lies? Sorry, malamute, but I'm missing the connection between lying and being brought to this country illegally as a child. Punish the child for the sins of the parents? They are being offered a chance at temporary citizenship .

Illegal immigrant children (even when they've reached an adult age) are not eligible for federal educational grants. American citizens are. So, what is being denied to American citizens in terms of obtaining grants for college? I don't know why you think the education would be free...unless you are referring to autonomous states agreeing to pay for it.

I realize the Act is flawed as written, but what would you do with the tens of millions of illegals in this country if not propose some sort of method to legalize at least some of them.
Yes it is based on lies. For one the lie that there are no colleges and universities in their own countries because there are. They can dream back home, all their dreaming doesn't have to be at the expense of Americans.

Another lie is to pretend that people illegally here are more worthy than those who have respected our laws and want to come here. Why should the crime-committing types have first dibs on immigration slots? Why should someone who has shown nothing but respect for our laws be denied a chance because we want to bring in millions of law breakers?

The real reason to smuggle in a 15 year old and demand the Dream Act is not only will he be given free college here if he wants but at age 18 can start to sponsor all the many family members who are over that age.

As for the tens of millions of illegals, I do believe in some sort of amnesty - that is if they leave on their own accord, and have no criminal record here, and they truly want to be American citizens, then they can get in line with all the other would-be immigrants, file their papers, wait for their opportunity. Find an employer sponsor.

And I would make an exception for minor crimes - if they were caught just being here illegally but didn't commit felony document fraud including green card fraud, that would be a misdemeanor crime. Document fraud is a felony crime.

If they continue breaking the laws of this country, then they should be banned from legal entry permanently after being deported.
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