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Old 11-09-2010, 10:54 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,315,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Siete View Post
Anyone who is not a citizen is an Alien. Resident Aliens are documented and approved Aliens.

1. Illegal aliens have committed an offense that carry civil penalties as well as criminal penalties that may be imposed.

The basis of the ACLU argument is correct. Improper entry aliens by their presence have only committed a civil violation. It remains a civil violation until legislators can make it a violation of the US criminal code. That is why the US can't control immigration - the laws are too lax, jurisdiction to change them is at the federal level, and amending the Constitution is a long term process.
I disagree concerning the ACLU and how they interpret what the US Code actually says . However, I do agree with you that trying for an amendment to the Constitution is not really practical. There is no way to get a 2/3 vote in congress and have it ratified by 3/4 of the states. it will not happen. Something else will need to be done.
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:15 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,315,071 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Siete View Post
When you parse the law it makes a distinction between the act of illegal entry (jumping the fence) and the act of being present in the US (living in East LA) without authorization. The quote above ("illegally entering") refers to the act of crossing the border.
The act of knowing you are here illegally is also a crime. Here, lets read what it says under section:
TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part VIII > § 1324

§ 1324. Bringing in and harboring certain aliens


(a) Criminal penalties (1) (A) Any person who—
(i) knowing that a person is an alien, brings to or attempts to bring to the United States in any manner whatsoever such person at a place other than a designated port of entry or place other than as designated by the Commissioner, regardless of whether such alien has received prior official authorization to come to, enter, or reside in the United States and regardless of any future official action which may be taken with respect to such alien;

(ii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, transports, or moves or attempts to transport or move such alien within the United States by means of transportation or otherwise, in furtherance of such violation of law;

(iii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place, including any building or any means of transportation;

(iv) encourages or induces an alien to come to, enter, or reside in the United States, knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such coming to, entry, or residence is or will be in violation of law; or

(v) (I) engages in any conspiracy to commit any of the preceding acts, or
(II) aids or abets the commission of any of the preceding acts,

shall be punished as provided in subparagraph (B).
------------------------------------------
Do you see the part that says Any Person? This also includes the alien themselves (legal or illegal) who are harboring themselves or others (such as family members) from detection.

If the illegal alien knows, or is in reckless disregard of the fact (ie: should know) that they themselves (including their family members) are here without lawful authorization, they themselves are in violation of the US Code. These particular offense are said to carry criminal penalties.
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:22 PM
 
Location: bold new city of the south
5,200 posts, read 4,111,883 times
Reputation: 6156
Default 'Illegal Immigrant' or 'Undocumented Worker'

Illegal Alien, Tresspasser, or Criminal!
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:23 PM
 
2,857 posts, read 5,852,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
According to U.S. immigration law if you are in this country illegally then you are an illegal alien whether or not you have been caught and convicted. There is no legal jargon using the term "undocumented worker or immigrant".
But you have to prove someone is here illegally, and this is usually done in court. Until proven to be an illegal alien, doesn't undocumented cover the spectrum?
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:36 PM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,089,287 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
The act of knowing you are here illegally is also a crime. Here, lets read what it says under section:
TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part VIII > § 1324

§ 1324. Bringing in and harboring certain aliens

(a) Criminal penalties (1) (A) Any person who—
(i) knowing that a person is an alien, brings to or attempts to bring to the United States in any manner whatsoever such person at a place other than a designated port of entry or place other than as designated by the Commissioner, regardless of whether such alien has received prior official authorization to come to, enter, or reside in the United States and regardless of any future official action which may be taken with respect to such alien;

(ii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, transports, or moves or attempts to transport or move such alien within the United States by means of transportation or otherwise, in furtherance of such violation of law;

(iii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place, including any building or any means of transportation;

(iv) encourages or induces an alien to come to, enter, or reside in the United States, knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such coming to, entry, or residence is or will be in violation of law; or

(v) (I) engages in any conspiracy to commit any of the preceding acts, or
(II) aids or abets the commission of any of the preceding acts,

shall be punished as provided in subparagraph (B).
------------------------------------------
Do you see the part that says Any Person? This also includes the alien themselves (legal or illegal) who are harboring themselves or others (such as family members) from detection.

If the illegal alien knows, or is in reckless disregard of the fact (ie: should know) that they themselves (including their family members) are here without lawful authorization, they themselves are in violation of the US Code. These particular offense are said to carry criminal penalties.
Quote:
Do you see the part that says Any Person? This also includes the alien themselves (legal or illegal) who are harboring themselves or others (such as family members) from detection.
Where did you get that interpretation? That passage any person... in no way includes the alien themselves. I read English perfectly well, where in section 1324 does it state that? Please highlight that passage.

One can not bring in and harbor ones self. One can come in without proper documentation [section 1325] and one can elude Authorities...
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:36 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 16,865,649 times
Reputation: 7623
Blow the trumpets, here comes the bleeding hearts again.... Lets stop the crap over illegal aliens and just use the same judicial laws and procedures mexico uses to stop illegal aliens entering their country, like:

~ Build a wall between Mexico and Guatemala to stop the illegals

~ Bars foreigners if they upset equilibrium of the national demographics

~ Bars foreigners if they are found to not be physically or mentally healthy

~ Bars foreigners who show contempt against national sovereignty or security

~ Those who want to be Mexican citizens must show a birth certificate, provide a bank statement proving economic self sufficiency, pass an exam and prove they can provide their own health care.

~ Faking a document like a social security card is subject to fine and imprisonment

~ illegal re-entry into Mexico after deportation is punishable by ten years’ imprisonment

~ illegals may be kicked out of the country without due process

oh yeah, and Mexico doesn't have signs like this:

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Old 11-09-2010, 12:38 PM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,089,287 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by domino View Post
But you have to prove someone is here illegally, and this is usually done in court. Until proven to be an illegal alien, doesn't undocumented cover the spectrum?
It does. the federal Government set up sub-groups of aliens. Even Arizona's SB1070 legislation has a definition of alien and "illegal alien" is no where to be found.
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:40 PM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,089,287 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Blow the trumpets, here comes the bleeding hearts again.... Lets stop the crap over illegal aliens and just use the same judicial laws and procedures mexico uses to stop illegal aliens entering their country, like:

~ Build a wall between Mexico and Guatemala to stop the illegals

~ Bars foreigners if they upset equilibrium of the national demographics

~ Bars foreigners if they are found to not be physically or mentally healthy

~ Bars foreigners who show contempt against national sovereignty or security

~ Those who want to be Mexican citizens must show a birth certificate, provide a bank statement proving economic self sufficiency, pass an exam and prove they can provide their own health care.

~ Faking a document like a social security card is subject to fine and imprisonment

~ illegal re-entry into Mexico after deportation is punishable by ten years’ imprisonment

~ illegals may be kicked out of the country without due process

oh yeah, and Mexico doesn't have signs like this:
Knowing what the laws are does not make one a "Bleeding Heart"...makes one informed on the issue.
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,823,428 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by domino View Post
But you have to prove someone is here illegally, and this is usually done in court. Until proven to be an illegal alien, doesn't undocumented cover the spectrum?
If I steal your car, am I an “unauthorized motorist” until I am apprehended and tried, or am I a thief?
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Old 11-09-2010, 01:07 PM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,089,287 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If I steal your car, am I an “unauthorized motorist” until I am apprehended and tried, or am I a thief?
and if I rob a bank am I an Unauthorized withdrawer?

If I kill someone am I an Unauthorized life-ender?

If I steal a cake am I an Unauthorized pastry-snatcher...

got a million more lame ones
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