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Old 11-09-2010, 09:37 AM
 
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
3,858 posts, read 5,964,233 times
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Footnote: What's the difference between 'illegal immigrant' and 'undocumented worker'?

The American Civil Liberties Union issued a brief on the issue in February and said the act of being present in the U.S. in violation of immigration laws is not, standing alone, a crime. "Unauthorized presence in the U.S. is criminally punishable only if it occurs after an individual was previously formally removed from the U.S. and then returned without permission," it said.

Many undocumented immigrants enter the U.S. legally but overstay their visas, which is a civil violation, not a crime, the ACLU said. That's the basis for the argument used by local groups such as Latinos United for Change and Advancement, which strongly opposes use of "illegal immigrant" and prefers "undocumented worker."

The Associated Press stylebook, which guides usage at most U.S. newspapers, including this one, says "illegal immigrant" is preferred over "undocumented worker." News organizations have defended the usage over the years, saying people who break civil laws still are acting illegally and that "undocumented worker" makes sense only in a story addressing employment.
David Minthorn, deputy standards editor for the AP in New York, said "illegal immigrant" is accurate and neutral for news stories. An immigrant is someone who comes into a country to settle, and illegal means a violation of the law, he said.

"Alternatives like 'undocumented worker,' 'illegal alien' or 'illegals' lack precision or may have negative connotations," he said.
The State Journal follows AP style and uses "illegal immigrant."
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:03 AM
 
Location: The Wine Country, CA
807 posts, read 1,117,599 times
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Of course the ACLU would issue such a statement as they have notoriously defended the rights of ILLEGAL ALIENS over that over U.S. Citizens for years.

"Undocumented Worker" is the politically correct term thrown out by Pro-Amnesty types with a desire to "change the discussion" so that the fact that the crime committed by the Illegal is overlooked.
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:10 AM
 
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I believe in this country, one is innocent until proven guilty. Thus only those "undocumented workers" who have been tried and convicted can be considered "illegal aliens." It's all about the Constitution, not pro-amnesty, or PC.
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:17 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,158,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domino View Post
I believe in this country, one is innocent until proven guilty. Thus only those "undocumented workers" who have been tried and convicted can be considered "illegal aliens." It's all about the Constitution, not pro-amnesty, or PC.
According to U.S. immigration law if you are in this country illegally then you are an illegal alien whether or not you have been caught and convicted. There is no legal jargon using the term "undocumented worker or immigrant".
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:25 AM
 
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
According to U.S. immigration law if you are in this country illegally then you are an illegal alien whether or not you have been caught and convicted. There is no legal jargon using the term "undocumented worker or immigrant".
Where is the legal jargon in US immigration law using the term "illegal alien"?

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/8/12/II/VIII/1325
8 U.S.C. § 1325 : US Code - Section 1325 is about "Improper entry by aliens"
Can we call them Improper Aliens and make everyone happy?
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:46 AM
 
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If we are speaking of those who have entered the US without authorization, I would disagree with the ACLU's interpretation. Here is the text of the US Code that makes improper entry into the United States an offense:

US Code TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part VIII > § 1325

§ 1325. Improper entry by alien

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

------------------------------------
First Observation:

The US Code specifically identifies those that have entered the US without authorization as being "Aliens". These offenders are not "undocumented immigrants" as the ACLU would have us to believe. Two things we can learn from this:

1. Aliens who enter the country without authorization are not immigrants. They are Aliens. Those Aliens that are here without proper authorization are here illegally.
2. The ACLU will hide and suppress the truth.

Second Observation:

The penalty clause for improper entry includes "civil penalties". However, civil penalties do not imply that the offense is limited to being a civil violation. Improper entry violations include "civil penalties", but these "civil penalties" are not in lieu of any "criminal penalties" that may be imposed. Two things we can learn from this:

1. Illegal aliens have committed an offense that carry civil penalties as well as criminal penalties that may be imposed.
2. The ACLU will hide and suppress the truth.

Third Observation:

A common theme emerges: The ACLU will hide and suppress the truth.

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Old 11-09-2010, 10:57 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,315,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Siete View Post
Where is the legal jargon in US immigration law using the term "illegal alien"?

8 U.S.C. § 1325 : US Code - Section 1325: Improper entry by alien
8 U.S.C. § 1325 : US Code - Section 1325 is about "Improper entry by aliens"
Can we call them Improper Aliens and make everyone happy?
I think it's two fold. The term "alien" is derived from the US code section you've listed. The term illegal is derived from the word "illegally" used here in the US Code:

§ 1330. Collection of penalties and expenses

(a) Notwithstanding any other provisions of this subchapter, the withholding or denial of clearance of or a lien upon any vessel or aircraft provided for in section 1221, 1224, 1253 (c)(2), 1281, 1283, 1284, 1285, 1286, 1321, 1322, or 1323 of this title shall not be regarded as the sole and exclusive means or remedy for the enforcement of payments of any fine, penalty or expenses imposed or incurred under such sections, but, in the discretion of the Attorney General, the amount thereof may be recovered by civil suit, in the name of the United States, from any person made liable under any of such sections.
(b) (1) There is established in the general fund of the Treasury a separate account which shall be known as the “Immigration Enforcement Account”. Notwithstanding any other section of this subchapter, there shall be deposited as offsetting receipts into the Immigration Enforcement Account amounts described in paragraph (2) to remain available until expended.
(2) The amounts described in this paragraph are the following: (A) The increase in penalties collected resulting from the amendments made by sections 203(b) and 543(a) of the Immigration Act of 1990.
(B) Civil penalties collected under sections 1229c (d), 1324c, 1324d, and 1325 (b) of this title.

(3) (A) The Secretary of the Treasury shall refund out of the Immigration Enforcement Account to any appropriation the amount paid out of such appropriation for expenses incurred by the Attorney General for activities that enhance enforcement of provisions of this subchapter. Such activities include— (i) the identification, investigation, apprehension, detention, and removal of criminal aliens;
(ii) the maintenance and updating of a system to identify and track criminal aliens, deportable aliens, inadmissible aliens, and aliens illegally entering the United States; and

---------------------------------

I'll stop here. No reason to go further...lol
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Old 11-09-2010, 11:06 AM
 
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
3,858 posts, read 5,964,233 times
Reputation: 1806
Quote:
Aliens who enter the country without authorization are not immigrants. They are Aliens.
Anyone who is not a citizen is an Alien. Resident Aliens are documented and approved Aliens.

1. Illegal aliens have committed an offense that carry civil penalties as well as criminal penalties that may be imposed.

The basis of the ACLU argument is correct. Improper entry aliens by their presence have only committed a civil violation. It remains a civil violation until legislators can make it a violation of the US criminal code. That is why the US can't control immigration - the laws are too lax, jurisdiction to change them is at the federal level, and amending the Constitution is a long term process.
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Old 11-09-2010, 11:08 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,387,732 times
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Call them what they clearly want to be called:

"Greatest thing that ever happened to America! Best people on Earth! Lazy gringo rescuers! Hey look lady, we're your grandparents! That's right. YOUR GRANDPARENTS! Treat us the way you would your grandparents. Give us free health care and educate our five children in Spanish. Oh and learn Spanish yourself, you lazy gringo."

I suppose it's a bit long but hey nothing too good for seventh grade drop out who violates our immigration laws and brings his four children and his pregnant wife to our shores. I remain eternally grateful to their decision to walk across the border without permission and attempt to turn the United States into the glorious paradise that is Mexico.

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Old 11-09-2010, 11:21 AM
 
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
3,858 posts, read 5,964,233 times
Reputation: 1806
(ii) the maintenance and updating of a system to identify and track criminal aliens, deportable aliens, inadmissible aliens, and aliens illegally entering the United States; a

When you parse the law it makes a distinction between the act of illegal entry (jumping the fence) and the act of being present in the US (living in East LA) without authorization. The quote above ("illegally entering") refers to the act of crossing the border. I'm all for cracking down on illegal immigrants and deporting them - the laws need to be changed to make it easier - but I'm not with those who demonize them as immoral bloodthirsty procreating scumbags who only want to mooch. It's hard to find common ground with such vitriol being spewed.
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