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Old 11-21-2010, 12:10 PM
 
1 posts, read 985 times
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If we were indeed talking about the reason that workers are coming here is because businesses bring them here with the attraction of jobs, then why aren't they footing the bill? I also felt the MSNBC special was very one-sided. There are people who are U.S. citizens who need help who don't qualify. We can't continue to put the costs on the welfare system. To me the issue is not about culture or race. It is an issue of our system not being able to shoulder the financial burden on our systems anymore - education, healthcare, housing, etc. My husband was an immigrant from the Ukraine. I had to sponsor him and ensure that he would not need social services. I was responsible. Why aren't these businesses that hire non-citizens responsible for supporting who they attract? It seems like that would force them to take responsibility. If they can easily say, "well, I am not 'sponsoring' them," it is not true. Because their actions define whether they are sponsors. This piece of the discussion was left out. It's great to have humanitarian intent, but we have to fund it. On an airplane they say "put your own oxygen mask on first before trying to assist others." Same philosophy applies.
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Old 11-21-2010, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,824,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eg1350 View Post
It's good to acknowledge extreme bias, and MSNBC's Beyond Borderlines was definitely an example of it.

With that said, it seems everyone in this thread hates such bias, and I therefore assume everyone here hates Fox News as well (or Lou Dobbs, Michael Savage, etc.). It's obvious nobody posting here subscribes to a liberal philosophy, so if those of you here are listeners or viewers of conservative pundits you may want to analyze your definition of bias...and self evaluate how balanced your judgments truly are before getting so furious when a network presents something that opposes your view. Just throwing that out there in case this applies to anyone on here.

From what I saw of this "town hall" the bias was blatant. MSNBC would have really helped itself if it would have executed this in a more balanced manner. However, who cares?? It's TV and that's how it goes. It happens on both sides and the goal should just be to take 99.9% of ALL media coverage with a grain of salt. If you fear that this is fueling the propaganda to be more open to unauthorized immigrants, keep in mind that there is plenty of propaganda that fuels the anti immigration rhetoric as well. So don’t worry about it too much.

What I find interesting, and what has compelled me to post on here, is how much things change the more they stay the same. FEAR is so powerful and it is so unfortunately evident in this thread (and of course in the larger society). "Wellyouknow" asks why do people keep bringing up the Columbian days? Well, why do we make students take social studies and history in school? Though there may be an agenda of socialization/nationalism in teaching history, theoretically it should also be intended to teach us to learn about ourselves through our past actions (and hopefully learn from our mistakes). It fascinates me how history seems to never fail to repeat itself. Fear of immigrants has always existed, as well as the same propaganda to stigmatize them. If you don't believe me, I highly recommend you go to library and read it for yourself. It has ALWAYS existed the same way it does now. And what has always been the result? Turns out those Irish or those Italian folks aren't so bad after all. Turns out they didn't completely destroy the economy or culture the way the native Amercians (the immigrant native Americans, not the actual ones) so anxiously feared! A century from now people are going to read about you guys the same way we, today, read about Americans who once had this openly great hate and fear of the scary black man. African Americans maybe didn't immigrate here by choice the same way today's immigrants do, but the great fear of the "other" - or as you guys seem to see it, the "not-entitled" - is fundamentally the same. The same way you guys are frustrated at everyone’s blindness to how detrimental these "aliens" are (and will increasingly continue to be), they too used to feel everyone else was so blind to not realize the disaster that would result from offering compassion and accommodation to those destructive "nig**s." The same way they dehumanized "nig**s", you guys are choosing to dehumanize "aliens." I know you guys think it’s a stretch and will try to justify that today’s situation is different…but it really is not. Artificial, socially constructed fear translating into hate and exclusion is what has always existed and what is happening now.

As far as them being illegal criminals…laws are not an absolute judge of right and wrong and you guys know this. There have been plenty of laws in history and to this day that breaking does not make one such a horrible person. Let me present you guys with a hypothetical, but still possible, scenario. Assume you guys are right, and these criminal aliens eventually bring our country into a horrific downward spiral. Corruption is fierce, violence is prevalent, and more importantly there are just no opportunities for you to make enough money to feed your family anymore (I know this is hard for you guys to grasp, but it’s the reality of some countries, and there’s no reason why it couldn’t happen here hundreds of years from now). However, assume at the same time Mexico improves their politics and economy and is now booming. Technically, it’s illegal to migrate into Mexico without the proper documentation. However, it’s intentionally made quite lengthy and difficult to actually become fully authorized to work and live in Mexico. Nevertheless, there are opportunities for work and plenty of Americans decide to just migrate in there and take the jobs they can get. Otherwise, they could just let their American children be hungry and live with no opportunity for any type of social mobility. To me it sounds logical that so many Americans would make the risky trip to Mexico rather than suffer here. Are you guys seriously saying you would stay here and let your children suffer simply because it would make you a criminal to go work in Mexico?!? If so I question your parenting. Especially if many of your children grow up to enter their universities and contribute strongly to their society…you would call your children criminals who don’t deserve to progress? Also consider that Mexico had historically contributed to the poor conditions here that fuel Americans into migrating into Mexico for work (ie, NAFTA today). I personally would hope Mexico would be more accommodating to helping us Americans in need. I think it would be ridiculous to call us criminals for just trying to work in their country. And if they complained about their hard earned tax money paying for our illegal living, that would just be extremely unfair, greedy, and sad of them.


I’m an American citizen who pays taxes (always has) just like you guys. I wonder why I don’t get so angry about my tax money apparently going to these undeserving, “criminal aliens.” I work in education so I obviously don’t make a lot of money, yet I don’t feel this selfish and greedy perception like immigrants are stealing my money. I eat everyday, have a place to live, and even enough money to enjoy simple luxuries (go out to dinner at a restaurant, take a little vacation every once in a while, etc.). It’s truly absurd to believe that if one day I can’t afford these things it will be because of immigrants. They don’t threaten me at all. And I live in a border town with plenty of Mexicans. And frankly, I actually feel sympathy for them and the experiences they go through. I don’t at all mind sharing a city with them if they choose to come here for better opportunities. I don’t feel like my tax money is being sucked dry by them. Again, that’s just absurd to actually believe. What does this openness make me? Am I ignorant? Is it bad of me to live in a city full of immigrants and not desire they all leave? Should I shift the injustices that I see in our society, and direct my disapproval at them? Are they in fact the true criminals I should be afraid of (rather than extremely powerful elites)? Am I not looking at my taxes closely enough to realize that these aliens are actually making my life miserable? Should I be more like you guys and live my life full of fear that criminal aliens are taking my money and committing all these crimes? What’s the difference between you guy and myself? Why do you think it does not fill me with anger to read about the kid who posted on here about being illegal and going to college, but it does for you guys? I’m wondering if I’m doing my children a disservice for teaching them to be more accepting of others rather than teaching them that they should be afraid of non-Americans who don’t have the proper pieces of paper to live around us. But if I did teach them the latter, I couldn’t help but feel hypocritical when answering them when they come home and ask why people used to hate Jews, Irish, Polish, Italians, Blacks, etc.
Please let me know if what I’m saying is unfair and I’d love to hear your opinions why.
Your assumption that we are all “obviously” conservative viewers of Fox News, and the blind sheeple of conservative pundits, illustrates why it is often unwise to assume. I am neither. Opponents of illegal immigration run the political and right/left gamut. In other words, anti-illegal immigration and liberalism are not mutually exclusive, nor is conservatism mutually inclusive. Like it or not, illegal aliens are criminals, and thus, deserving of reproach. They made their bed, we didn’t.

Foreigners who circumvent our immigration laws are not “immigrants.” It becomes so tiresome having to constantly repeat this plain and simple fact. Your comparison of foreigners who entered this country through legal channels, to those who brazenly violate our laws, is the hallmark of intellectual dishonesty. Legal immigrants and illegal aliens are NOT the same, nor should they be treated as such.

Don’t you pro-illegals have anything in your arsenal other than the race card? Good grief, show some creativity. There is absolutely no comparison between foreign interlopers and citizens of this country of ANY race/ethnicity. Furthermore, “nig***s” were not dehumanized. I think you meant to say black citizens. Freudian slip?

You’re right; laws are not an absolute judge of right or wrong. However, absent the rule of law, we have anarchy. Is that your preference? Moreover, you are not the arbiter of morality. Nor are our immigration laws unfair simply because YOU say so.

Please explain how we could possibly be more accommodating to illegal Mexicans. Apparently, providing a tax-funded education, meals, ESL classes, in-state tuition, Medicaid, welfare, subsidized housing, medical treatment, organ transplants, kidney dialysis, translators, and legal representation, all fall short of your requirements.

FEAR -- your buzzword for the belief in the rule of law. Laughable.

It is your prerogative to teach your children whatever you choose. However, be prepared to visit them in jail if you teach them to pick and choose which laws they obey.
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Old 11-21-2010, 01:22 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,694,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Your assumption that we are all “obviously” conservative viewers of Fox News, and the blind sheeple of conservative pundits, illustrates why it is often unwise to assume. I am neither. Opponents of illegal immigration run the political and right/left gamut. In other words, anti-illegal immigration and liberalism are not mutually exclusive, nor is conservatism mutually inclusive. Like it or not, illegal aliens are criminals, and thus, deserving of reproach. They made their bed, we didn’t.

Foreigners who circumvent our immigration laws are not “immigrants.” It becomes so tiresome having to constantly repeat this plain and simple fact. Your comparison of foreigners who entered this country through legal channels, to those who brazenly violate our laws, is the hallmark of intellectual dishonesty. Legal immigrants and illegal aliens are NOT the same, nor should they be treated as such.

Don’t you pro-illegals have anything in your arsenal other than the race card? Good grief, show some creativity. There is absolutely no comparison between foreign interlopers and citizens of this country of ANY race/ethnicity. Furthermore, “nig***s” were not dehumanized. I think you meant to say black citizens. Freudian slip?

You’re right; laws are not an absolute judge of right or wrong. However, absent the rule of law, we have anarchy. Is that your preference? Moreover, you are not the arbiter of morality. Nor are our immigration laws unfair simply because YOU say so.

Please explain how we could possibly be more accommodating to illegal Mexicans. Apparently, providing a tax-funded education, meals, ESL classes, in-state tuition, Medicaid, welfare, subsidized housing, medical treatment, organ transplants, kidney dialysis, translators, and legal representation, all fall short of your requirements.

FEAR -- your buzzword for the belief in the rule of law. Laughable.

It is your prerogative to teach your children whatever you choose. However, be prepared to visit them in jail if you teach them to pick and choose which laws they obey.
Whoa! You preach it girl!

This has to be the definitive post on this subject thus far. There is absolutely nothing more to be added.

I bow down to your erudite and recondite smackdown on ignorance!
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Old 11-21-2010, 01:25 PM
 
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Immigrants aren't the subject, illegal aliens are.

You really choose to not look beyond that huh? Ok, so say the pro-illegals get their way and provide all the illegals with citizenship....end of the problem right? They will then be legal and that seems to be all you care about right?

This honestly isn't to bring out the race card or accuse you of being racist. It also isn't to make a direct comparison to the unauthorized immigration situation today...but simply to see how strongly you truly believe in the almighty law. Please answer the following:

Did you know it was once illegal for black people to be free? Are you aware of the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850? If black people escaped slavery, an officer, even in the north, was required by law to arrest the blacks to have them sent back to their plantation and be beaten..maybe killed. So do you believe these black slaves who escaped deserved to be treated like criminals? And, therefore, they legitimately should not have attempted freedom because it was against the law? Their only chance at freedom was migrating to Canada or Mexico, so do you think that made them unlawful criminals to go into these foreign countries? If you were a Canadian mountie would you have sent any African American slave right back to the States and suggested they fix their problem at home?

I'm sure this is not truly just about them being legal or illegal. Again, if all of them were rewarded amnesty (lets also say that part of the amnesty deal was that all the ones who came here illegally had to pay a fee - say $6000 - as part of their citizenship granting) and the borders were opened for more to come legally, I'm sure you would still have a problem.

Why are you making comparisons between the legal immigrants of the past to today's illegal aliens? Today it is about status not ethnicity/nationality or race.

Again, this isn't about race but one's non-right to be in this country because they didn't go through legal channels and honor our immigration laws. There is no fear of the "other" today.

I almost choked at reading that last sentence. I understand that this isn't about you hating Latino people or Chinese people, per se. You hate illegal people. But what makes them the "other" is that they were not born in the USA. Therefore, they are not entitled to the opportunities that us USA-born or those USA-declared citizens have. You hate these "others" because you fear the negative impact they will have on your life...so yes there is a fear of the "other."

Yes, I understand they used to be able to just come in and become authorized citizens with no problem, while today, becoming authorized is far more difficult. However, though they were legal immigrants back then, they were still considered as "others" and they were greatly feared the way you fear today's "others." And they were feared for the same reasons you fear today's "others." So that's the comparison...that people always find a scapegoat to fear and hate. You are doing it today. And people have always felt their hate and fear was justified compared to the ones of the past or other societies....same way you do.



The stats on the negative impact of illegal immigration is out there for you to read. Loss of jobs, their social costs, increased crime and overcrowding due to uncontrolled population growth, dilution of our culture and language by most of them coming from one ethnic group are undeniable facts. So to acknowledge these facts and object to their presence here is "dehumanizing" them? You pro-illegals always use strong words like "hate" and "racism" where it doesn't belong because you want to "dehumanize" loyal, law abiding Americans who want our borders and immigration laws respected. They should be excluded. They are here illegally.

The stats on the positive impact of unauthorized immigration is out there for you to read as well. I can recommend plenty of literature for you, but I'm sure you know about it. I remember the New York Times had a cover story not too long ago on a study of the positive economic impact of immigration (including illegal). I personally hold more valid the studies in academic journals, which have shown the same thing, as well as data on the far less likelihood of illegal immigrants to commit crimes than U.S. citizens. Let me guess, though, that stuff is bias right? But your sources are not, of course. Perhaps it's a matter of looking at the glass as half empty or half full? I'm glad you and I were born and raised in the same country yet I don't live with the anxiety you do. Some just choose to live in fear and anger I suppose.

As far as dehumanizing, the fact that you insist on calling them "aliens" is kind of dehumanizing wouldn't you say? Or are aliens human? So for crossing a border illegally, they are no longer referred to as humans, but rather as aliens? You do know that these types of names have always been used in history as a psychological means of dehumanization right (ie, Tutsi's in Rwanda as "cockroaches")?



They are all here illegally and that is all that matters. Every country has a right to immigration laws. It isn't about right or wrong. Again, with another one of your terms meant to demonize law abiding Americans with your term "horrible person" to make us look bad and place sympathy on the illegal aliens.

It seems that's where we differ. I think beyond legal and illegal, for there have been many things that were once considered legal and illegal, and in retrospect should not have been. To me it is about right and wrong.

And I'm not demonizing law abiding Americans. I'm a law abiding American and know plenty of others, who the things I'm saying here does not apply to. But that's great that everyone who is anti-illegals here follows every single American law and is so law abiding.



Most Mexicans aren't starving in their country. Doesn't matter anyway we cannot take in every "starving" person in the world or we will starve ourselves.

Do you honestly believe that living conditions are not an issue in third world, or newly industrialized countries?!? But since most people are not "starving," and they do eat some type of food, lets just say starving for opportunity. If you're worried about us starving ourselves from too many people coming here, have you considered re-directing all this passion for justice that you have? Why not direct it toward the small elite in our country who exploit and preserve the majority of the worlds wealth and resources, and are thus fueling so many people to come here for opportunity? You go after the people with the least amount of power, but ultimately it's those with a great amount of power that create such disparities of opportunity wouldn't you say?



Disagree. If the situation were reversed, I wouldn't advocate for Americans to violate Mexico's immigration laws either. I suggest that people stay in their own countries and fix them.

See above. Mexicans and other illegals that come here create many problems for their kid's futures by their illegal status. You say it makes a good parent to teach their kids to break the law? I question your morals and scruples and your parenting ability and all those parents here illegally.

If that's what you believe you would do, I can't call you a liar. But I think you may have an inability to truly grasp the actual living conditions in other parts of the world. Trust me, the problems they create for their kids futures by their illegal status here is nothing compared to the problems they would experience in their own country. And considering those conditions, teaching their kids to break a border crossing law is in my opinion well justified. I don't see them as criminals, I see them as humans taking reasonable risks to provide better lives for their children.

Stay in their own countries and fix them..Haha. It's hard enough for you and I to fix our own highly industrialized democratic country. Go tell all those severely impoverished people in third world countries to use their political power and education to fix their country.....oh wait, they've been deprived of those things from the moment they were born. Well whatever, fix it! Otherwise if you come here, I'm going to lose my job and home, and people won't speak English, and you're going to kill my family...because that's what immigrants who cross illegally do, as opposed to everyone else.



They can progress in their own countries and benefit their own countries.

One final time, in case you are truly that ignorant to the world outside of the USA ...NO THEY CANNOT. People love their homelands. If they could, they would much rather stay there than come to a place where they are marginalized and completely unfamiliar with. They come because they literally cannot progress in their own countries, and therefore do not have the means to benefit their own countries. And foreign practices by the USA have historically contributed to that.



Mexico has immigration laws even stricter than ours and they enforce them also. They have every right to do that without being called the names you mentioned.

Mexico does a lot of things wrong.



Well these illegal aliens are stealing our tax dollars. Tell you what you take the burden on then by paying my share along with yours, ok? I don't feel it selfish and greedy to not want to support foreigners who thumb their noses at our laws rather than my taxes going to help my family and my fellow citizen's families.

I'm not convinced you truly need me to pay your share. I pay my taxes and you pay yours, and I'm sure we both live decently comfortable at the end of it. However, if they decided to hike my taxes to help fund the re-creation of the Harlem Children Zone in various other impoverished communities in the country, I would be ok with that. Because it's going to help those with less opportunity. Plus, you are exaggerating how much of your tax dollars unauthorized immigrants are stealing, while not considering some economic benefits from their presence.



Try telling that to the millions of Americans who have lost a job to an illegal alien or had a loved one killed by an illegal alien and try to educate yourself on the actual costs of illegal immigration to our country.

True. So they've killed innocent people's loved ones because they are unauthorized immigrants. That's what unauthroized immigrants do right? So yeah I guess people should fear and hate unauthorized immigrants. I'm going to start hating my fellow White folks for all their law breaking and horrific crimes against humanity they've committed. That's what White people do right?

And who should we hold accountable for the millions of foreigners who have lost work due to American foreign policies? Did you vote for George Bush senior? If so, perhaps all the people affected by his global policies should fear and hate you?


I suggest you teach your kids respect for our laws instead of misplaced compassion for those who don't.

"Misplaced compassion"...oh lord.



Ah, the race card. I wondered how long it would take you to pull it out of your wallet. Are you aware that Mexicans and other Latinos hold the second highest quotas for legal immigration into our country? This has nothing to do with hate since we have millions of legal/citizen Latinos in this country. It has everything to do with foreigners respecting our immigration laws no matter where they are from.

I wasn't at all suggesting hate of Latinos. Where did I even say that? I wasn't pulling a race card, but was simply talking about fear and hate of people (all people) we deem to not belong. You can stand behind the whole legal/illegal dichotomy all you want, but it goes beyond that. I already discussed why earlier so won't get into it again. You need a scape goat to fear and hate...and now it is the "illegal alien"...I get it...it's nothing new.



On a side note, I suggest you make more paragraphs for clarity. It is hard to read something that rambles on sentence after sentence with no gramatically correct paragraphs. You should know this if you are truly in the education field.

Man you guys really are sensitive to a lot of things huh? Well it's a good thing I'm not an English or grammar teacher. Thanks for the suggestion.


I'll consider taking your other advice and start hating my fellow unauthorized immigrants too. It's so much better to fear and hate people who come here for some of the opportunities I've been blessed to be born into rather than to understand and accept them.
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Old 11-21-2010, 01:44 PM
 
4 posts, read 4,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Your assumption that we are all “obviously” conservative viewers of Fox News, and the blind sheeple of conservative pundits, illustrates why it is often unwise to assume. I am neither. Opponents of illegal immigration run the political and right/left gamut. In other words, anti-illegal immigration and liberalism are not mutually exclusive, nor is conservatism mutually inclusive. Like it or not, illegal aliens are criminals, and thus, deserving of reproach. They made their bed, we didn’t.

Foreigners who circumvent our immigration laws are not “immigrants.” It becomes so tiresome having to constantly repeat this plain and simple fact. Your comparison of foreigners who entered this country through legal channels, to those who brazenly violate our laws, is the hallmark of intellectual dishonesty. Legal immigrants and illegal aliens are NOT the same, nor should they be treated as such.

Don’t you pro-illegals have anything in your arsenal other than the race card? Good grief, show some creativity. There is absolutely no comparison between foreign interlopers and citizens of this country of ANY race/ethnicity. Furthermore, “nig***s” were not dehumanized. I think you meant to say black citizens. Freudian slip?

You’re right; laws are not an absolute judge of right or wrong. However, absent the rule of law, we have anarchy. Is that your preference? Moreover, you are not the arbiter of morality. Nor are our immigration laws unfair simply because YOU say so.

Please explain how we could possibly be more accommodating to illegal Mexicans. Apparently, providing a tax-funded education, meals, ESL classes, in-state tuition, Medicaid, welfare, subsidized housing, medical treatment, organ transplants, kidney dialysis, translators, and legal representation, all fall short of your requirements.

FEAR -- your buzzword for the belief in the rule of law. Laughable.

It is your prerogative to teach your children whatever you choose. However, be prepared to visit them in jail if you teach them to pick and choose which laws they obey.
Sorry for assuming people on here tended not to be liberal. Glad you cleared up that conservatism is not popular here.

Don't you anti-unauthorized immigrants have anything in your arsenal aside from the legal/illegal rhetoric? That gets tiresome. And not a Freudian slip...I'm sure you're smart enough to know why I used the n-word.

And yes..FEAR..is the buzzword. It's the root of all of this. Laugh all you want in denial.

Yes...I am totally suggesting anarchy lol. What I think is unfair is people not having the proper opportunities for social mobility. If that could be provided for them here, then I don't mind them coming. Like I've said, why don't we stop hating the people who come here, but rather the people at the top who manipulate the opportunities for wealth and are essentially forcing people to come here? What they do is what is unfair yet we scape goat the ones who are powerless and easiest to scape goat.

And I didn't say the things you listed were a lack of accommodation. But if it were up to you, you'd wipe all those things out. You hate everything you listed. It's your attitude that could potentially use an readjustment toward accommodation. But of course not, because if you do, then they will all come in and ruin everything!!!!!...OOHHH NOOOO ATTACK OF THE ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!!!......FEAR

EDIT: Oh and I don't worry about my children going to jail. They learn to respect humanity and be good people. Perhaps they'll end up there for just causes, which I don't promote, but if they do, I can't be disappointed in them for it. Some of the greatest people in our history have ended up in jail fighting for what is right. Or rather than call them some of the greatest figures in our history, perhaps I should just call them criminals and end it at that.
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Old 11-21-2010, 01:49 PM
 
28 posts, read 12,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eg1350 View Post
Sorry for assuming people on here tended not to be liberal. Glad you cleared up that conservatism is not popular here.

Don't you anti-unauthorized immigrants have anything in your arsenal aside from the legal/illegal rhetoric? That gets tiresome. And not a Freudian slip...I'm sure you're smart enough to know why I used the n-word.

And yes..FEAR..is the buzzword. It's the root of all of this. Laugh all you want in denial.

Yes...I am totally suggesting anarchy lol. What I think is unfair is people not having the proper opportunities for social mobility. If that could be provided for them here, then I don't mind them coming. Like I've said, why don't we stop hating the people who come here, but rather the people at the top who manipulate the opportunities for wealth and are essentially forcing people to come here? What they do is what is unfair yet we scape goat the ones who are powerless and easiest to scape goat.

And I didn't say the things you listed were a lack of accommodation. But if it were up to you, you'd wipe all those things out. You hate everything you listed. It's your attitude that could potentially use an readjustment toward accommodation. But of course not, because if you do, then they will all come in and ruin everything!!!!!...OOHHH NOOOO ATTACK OF THE ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!!!......FEAR

Why do the "undocumented workers" I mean illegal criminals hate Mexico so much????
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Old 11-21-2010, 02:10 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,304,644 times
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The people we owe are our own Citizens, and those in OUR COUNTRY who are Poor. We need to take care of our own before the welfare of any one else!

I don't care what Country immigrants come from, if they are in this Country illegally, most Americans don't want them here, it is that simple, do it the right way as my Ancestors did when they came here, not expecting a thing, without hard work.

It is not fear we have, it is anger.
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Old 11-21-2010, 02:13 PM
 
28 posts, read 12,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post
The people we owe are our own Citizens, and those in OUR COUNTRY who are Poor. We need to take care of our own before the welfare of any one else!

I don't care what Country immigrants come from, if they are in this Country illegally, most Americans don't want them here, it is that simple, do it the right way as my Ancestors did when they came here, not expecting a thing, without hard work.

It is not fear we have, it is anger.

I agreee with your anger part but more than that it is about evading justice and gaming our system.
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Old 11-21-2010, 02:28 PM
 
Location: #
9,605 posts, read 14,287,832 times
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Originally Posted by wellyouknow View Post
Oh, yes, and as for the MSNBC 'panel', it would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic. They basically had a room full of "latinos" all agreeing with each other in vague, nebulous terms "we must fix our immigration laws (i.e. allow unrestricted immigration from spanish speaking countries south of the border), they are all humans looking for work, the US must send money to south america to build infrastracture (? how did that get in there)". Not a single concrete way of dealing with illegal immigration - just platitudes vaguely hinting at 100% amnesty and basically unrestricted illegal immigration until "the US fixes South America's economies like it did Germany and Japan" (that of course would mean we'd have to annex it first)

Well, except for that one out-of-place looking former INS officer that actually asked meaningful and practical questions and dealt with facts only he could know.

Not much of a debate - more of a circus, and a community meeing. I always thought la Raza meetings would go like this. What I don't understand why a lot hispanic US citizens seem to have this tribal mentality trying to protect 'their people's' honor and the 'right' to violate US border, people who should be as foreign to them as to the rest of the US citizens.
Perhaps this is because you choose to dishonor Hispanics. Perhaps this is because your side chooses to ignore the fact that Hispanics are lured here by businesses to work for a better life then are used as political pawns when conservatives are found out.

Whose help are they supposed to ask for? Persons such as yourself? Persons who refuse to acknowledge that our country's unquenchable thirst for illegal drugs and cheap labor have caused this issue?

And now that the people are here, you want to turn around and treat them as a commidity rather than people.

I am married into a Mexican-American family that is by and large conservative. It is the attitudes of conservatives as of late that has flipped each and every one of the to Democrat. It is the way you so arrogantly say things such as, "Well, my ancestors came here legally on a boat" while conveninetly ignoring the fact that although technically illegal, these people have been aided and abetted by the United States for decades. Furthermore, many remained in the United States illegally despite being turned down at Ellis Island.

Can you prove your ancestors don't fall into this category?

If they did, would they admit it?
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Old 11-21-2010, 02:34 PM
 
28 posts, read 12,005 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by crbcrbrgv View Post
Perhaps this is because you choose to dishonor Hispanics. Perhaps this is because your side chooses to ignore the fact that Hispanics are lured here by businesses to work for a better life then are used as political pawns when conservatives are found out.

Whose help are they supposed to ask for? Persons such as yourself? Persons who refuse to acknowledge that our country's unquenchable thirst for illegal drugs and cheap labor have caused this issue?

And now that the people are here, you want to turn around and treat them as a commidity rather than people.

I am married into a Mexican-American family that is by and large conservative. It is the attitudes of conservatives as of late that has flipped each and every one of the to Democrat. It is the way you so arrogantly say things such as, "Well, my ancestors came here legally on a boat" while conveninetly ignoring the fact that although technically illegal, these people have been aided and abetted by the United States for decades. Furthermore, many remained in the United States illegally despite being turned down at Ellis Island.

Can you prove your ancestors don't fall into this category?

If they did, would they admit it?

How dare you say because people don't want illegals here, they dishonor hispanics. You are the worst of the worst playing the race card for people who break our laws. Pathetic.
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