U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-16-2010, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
Reputation: 3028

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
No they weren't. They were passengers on a bus.
They were passengers on a bus, who are in this country in violation of our laws. If the bus driver was aware of their illegal status, he/she could be charged with transporting illegal aliens; which, by the way, is a felony.

Quote:
Each charge of transporting illegal aliens carries, upon conviction,
imprisonment for up to 10 years and a fine of up to $250,000.
USDOJ Search:transporting illegal immigrants
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-16-2010, 04:39 PM
 
14,920 posts, read 10,751,410 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
They were passengers on a bus, who are in this country in violation of our laws. If the bus driver was aware of their illegal status, he/she could be charged with transporting illegal aliens; which, by the way, is a felony.


USDOJ Search:transporting illegal immigrants

Um, you're wrong on the facts. These two aren't in this country in violation of any law. They are American citizens (natural born to boot) and have every legal right to be anywhere in the country they damn well please. Furthermore, they're entitled to the Constituational protection against unlawful searches and seizures.

The search of the bus was illegal as was the detainment of these American citizens.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2010, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Um, you're wrong on the facts. These two aren't in this country in violation of any law. They are American citizens (natural born to boot) and have every legal right to be anywhere in the country they damn well please. Furthermore, they're entitled to the Constituational protection against unlawful searches and seizures.

The search of the bus was illegal as was the detainment of these American citizens.
Sorry, but the majority of passengers were illegal aliens. The search is therefore justified. Let’s be thankful they weren’t terrorists.

Citizens are arrested and detained on a daily basis. Some prove to be the culprit, while others are questioned and released. These passengers were questioned and released. Big deal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2010, 05:04 PM
 
Location: colorado
2,788 posts, read 4,250,021 times
Reputation: 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
"Two American citizens detained and searched in April by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents filed a legal claim against the agency Monday alleging ethnic stereotyping and racial profiling...The claim — which alleges false arrest, false imprisonment and battery — is a precursor to a federal lawsuit."

"When the chartered bus stopped at the McDonald's, an ICE agent also was eating there. The agent became suspicious because of how the passengers were dressed and because they were speaking Spanish, according to an ICE report...The agents boarded the bus, asked passengers to produce identification, and searched their wallets and purses. Bautista and Artimas showed the agents their Colorado state identification cards, and then they were searched and placed in a cell at a detention center. Bautista was fingerprinted and his mugshot was taken. 'I felt like they were treating me like a criminal,' Bautista said. 'When I told them I was born in the U.S., they told me I was a liar.' While Bautista was in a cell, the agents high-fived each other, he said. 'They said we were a bunch of Mexicans and we were bothering Americans,' Artimas said. About two hours later, Bautista and Artimas were let go."

"If this was a bus full of white people speaking French, would they have called in the goons and searched the bus?" asked Hans Meyer, an ACLU cooperating attorney who is representing the two."


Two Americans file claim over questioning by ICE agent - The Denver Post



What a disgusting act by the government. I hope these two win a big settlement.




So do I
I have many times been pulled over because of my race.
Once the officer pulled me over because it was 9am in the morning during the summer and my headlights werent on...yes he did
He had me pull over and approached the car and asked if I spoke english..I told him thats all I spoke..he didnt believe me and said " are you sure"
Then he asked if I had weapons on me..I said no..and I told him whats your name and badge number because I dont appreciate your racist remarks..
That was just one incident
The list goes on
We have been having too many police brutalities here in Colorado
Its a disgrace
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2010, 05:09 PM
 
14,920 posts, read 10,751,410 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Sorry, but the majority of passengers were illegal aliens. The search is therefore justified. Let’s be thankful they weren’t terrorists.

Citizens are arrested and detained on a daily basis. Some prove to be the culprit, while others are questioned and released. These passengers were questioned and released. Big deal.
What? Your logic is just, well, not logical. The search was legal and justified because afterwards it was found that some people searched were in violation of a law. Give me a break. I'd love to try that one in court: "Your honor, we had reasonable suspicion and legal cause to conduct a warrantless search and subsequent detainment because later we found out some of the people were criminals." That might have flown in Nazi Germany or today in Communist China, but it shouldn't here. In the United States we have rights that protect us from tyrannical government.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2010, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,972,991 times
Reputation: 3084
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepgirl27 View Post
So do I
I have many times been pulled over because of my race.
Once the officer pulled me over because it was 9am in the morning during the summer and my headlights werent on...yes he did
He had me pull over and approached the car and asked if I spoke english..I told him thats all I spoke..he didnt believe me and said " are you sure"
Then he asked if I had weapons on me..I said no..and I told him whats your name and badge number because I dont appreciate your racist remarks..
That was just one incident
The list goes on
We have been having too many police brutalities here in Colorado
Its a disgrace
So asking if you speak English and if you have any weapons is racist? Gimme a break
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2010, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
What? Your logic is just, well, not logical. The search was legal and justified because afterwards it was found that some people searched were in violation of a law. Give me a break. I'd love to try that one in court: "Your honor, we had reasonable suspicion and legal cause to conduct a warrantless search and subsequent detainment because later we found out some of the people were criminals." That might have flown in Nazi Germany or today in Communist China, but it shouldn't here. In the United States we have rights that protect us from tyrannical government.
In other words, if law enforcement suspects a group of travelers are drug traffickers, stops their car, and upon searching the car discovers drugs, they have infringed upon the rights of the criminals because they had no probable cause to stop them? Okay.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2010, 05:43 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,172,244 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Like these two individuals, I'm a native born American citizen. I travel a lot, and I've never carried any form of ID outside of my state ID. What, in your mind, is adequate and proper documentation?
To my knowledge a state I.D. is just as acceptable as a DL regardless of what state you are in or the state that issued it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2010, 05:45 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,172,244 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
What? Your logic is just, well, not logical. The search was legal and justified because afterwards it was found that some people searched were in violation of a law. Give me a break. I'd love to try that one in court: "Your honor, we had reasonable suspicion and legal cause to conduct a warrantless search and subsequent detainment because later we found out some of the people were criminals." That might have flown in Nazi Germany or today in Communist China, but it shouldn't here. In the United States we have rights that protect us from tyrannical government.
It was ICE who was involved in this incident. They have their own set of rules to seek out illegal aliens.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2010, 05:50 PM
 
14,920 posts, read 10,751,410 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
In other words, if law enforcement suspects a group of travelers are drug traffickers, stops their car, and upon searching the car discovers drugs, they have infringed upon the rights of the criminals because they had no probable cause to stop them? Okay.
You're putting words in my mouth by trying to set up a very vague and in no way analogous analogy to what I said.

Government agents cannot stop, search, or seize unless they have probable cause. Your hypothetical depends on the circumstances.

If a law enforcement agent has reason to stop a car (speeding, ran a red light, etc) then he should. If he then finds probable cause that another crime is taking place - such as drug trafficking or kidnapping (the car smells like pot, there's a crack pipe in plain sight, moaning and loud thumping is heard coming from the trunk) - then he has every right to search the car. He can't search the car simply because the person was speeding. Also, if he had prior information that a specific person or a specific car would be involved in a crime like drug trafficking (from a reliable informant, etc), that constitutes probable cause and that car / person can be stopped and searched.

However, if a cop sees someone dressed like a "thug" and speaking ebonics at the next table in McDonalds, that's not probable cause to then go out to the parking lot and search his car. Hell, it's not even enough reasonable suspicion to approach and then demand to see his identification (which is a search). That's the analogy to what happened here.

In this case, according to the ICE report, the bus was raided because an ICE agent eating at McDonalds saw a group of people speaking Spanish and noted they appeared to be traveling based on their clothing. That's not probable cause. Despite the illegal search, these two American citizens went ahead and provided the agents with their legal, government issued IDs. The agents ignored this and dragged them in anyway - they actually commandeered the entire bus and took it and all its contents into custody.

Had I been on that bus I'd be furious, and I'd be suing too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top