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Old 11-16-2010, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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It must be contagious.

Quote:
GREENSBORO, N.C. -- Local leaders of the Latin Kings street gang have filed a federal civil rights complaint against the Greensboro police, alleging repeated harassment by the department's gang unit.

"We've been faced with a lot of scrutiny, a lot of police brutality, a lot of discrimination, a lot of racial profiling, which has been ridiculous," Cornell said.
http://officer.com/online/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=55331 (broken link)

Last edited by Benicar; 11-16-2010 at 04:58 PM.. Reason: To fix link.
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Old 11-16-2010, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
You're putting words in my mouth by trying to set up a very vague and in no way analogous analogy to what I said.

Government agents cannot stop, search, or seize unless they have probable cause. Your hypothetical depends on the circumstances.

If a law enforcement agent has reason to stop a car (speeding, ran a red light, etc) then he should. If he then finds probable cause that another crime is taking place - such as drug trafficking or kidnapping (the car smells like pot, there's a crack pipe in plain sight, moaning and loud thumping is heard coming from the trunk) - then he has every right to search the car. He can't search the car simply because the person was speeding. Also, if he had prior information that a specific person or a specific car would be involved in a crime like drug trafficking (from a reliable informant, etc), that constitutes probable cause and that car / person can be stopped and searched.

However, if a cop sees someone dressed like a "thug" and speaking ebonics at the next table in McDonalds, that's not probable cause to then go out to the parking lot and search his car. Hell, it's not even enough reasonable suspicion to approach and then demand him for identification (which is a search). That's the analogy to what happened here.

In this case, according to the ICE report, the bus was raided because an ICE agent eating at McDonalds saw a group of people speaking Spanish and noted they appeared to be traveling based on their clothing. That's not probable cause. Despite the illegal search, these two American citizens went ahead and provided the agents with their legal, government issued IDs. The agents ignored this and dragged them in anyway - they actually commandeered the entire bus and took it and all its contents into custody.

Had I been on that bus I'd be furious, and I'd be suing too.
According to the ICE report, or according to the complaint filed by the plaintiffs? I haven’t seen the ICE report. Have you?
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:21 PM
 
14,920 posts, read 10,722,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
According to the ICE report, or according to the complaint filed by the plaintiffs? I haven’t seen the ICE report. Have you?
My information comes from the administrative complaint filed on behalf of one of the detained American citizens. Here it is if you care to read it:

http://vvoice.vo.llnwd.net/e6/5636450.0.pdf

If you want to accuse the attorney of lying about the facts found in the report, feel free. I can't imagine, however, any good (or even a really bad) attorney would blatantly lie about a report everyone involved in the case has access to.
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
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1 might wonder why 6 legal citizens were traveling with a bus load of illegals?36 out of 42 were in fact illegals. Coincidence? I think not. If a cop arrests everybody traveling with gang members only to find out 2 were in fact not members of the gang. I would still ask what were they doing traveling with gang bangers?
Do honest citizens normally take bus trips with illegals? None that I know of. Another question might be what kind of convention is it that draws a bus load of illegals?
Would this happen to a bus load of white french speakers? I don't know. Are we being invaded by the french? Are french people in this country illegally counted in the millions?
Perhaps Bautista and Artimas should be a little more selective in the company they keep. When you travel with criminals it is reasonable to expect to be treated like the company you keep.
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:39 PM
 
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Interesting! Now I know if someone tries to touch me when I'm traveling the going rate is $200,000. And I know FOR SURE that clients are always honest with their attorneys. ACLU to the rescue!!!!

By asking for my ID and forcing me to go through an xray scanner or a pat down I am guilty until proven innocent. But I guess that's because I'm white. If I wasn't, any actions like this would be racist. Oh but I'm flying...that's the difference! Because terrorists only come into the country by plane!!!!

I think I'll try this next time I go to Vegas. Sure would be fun with $200,000.
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:40 PM
 
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
3,858 posts, read 5,959,040 times
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The ICE officers may have had probable cause. Both officers speak Spanish and overheard a discussion in Spanish by the travelers that made them suspicious. Their suspicions were confirmed as 36 of 42 were illegals, 2 were detained and 34 were released with a promise to appear.

What evidence were the 2 citizens carrying to prove their status? Does a state issued ID card contain residency/citizenship status? What ID does a 'regular American' carry that proves legal residency?
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:42 PM
 
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
3,858 posts, read 5,959,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Would this happen to a bus load of white french speakers?
It's more likely to happen to a busload of French Muslims.

A dark skinned acquaintance was on a student bus trip through Georgia in 2002 and suddenly found himself surrounded by locals & the sheriff in a local convenience store demanding to see his papers.
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
My information comes from the administrative complaint filed on behalf of one of the detained American citizens. Here it is if you care to read it:

http://vvoice.vo.llnwd.net/e6/5636450.0.pdf

If you want to accuse the attorney of lying about the facts found in the report, feel free. I can't imagine, however, any good (or even a really bad) attorney would blatantly lie about a report everyone involved in the case has access to.
As suspected, it is the complaint, not the actual ICE report. Unfortunately, I can’t open the pdf link you posted, but I appreciate your effort. The attorney has filed the complaint according to the statements received from his/her clients. That is simply their version of the events. The court will determine the veracity of their allegations. Until then, it is their word against the ICE agents, and the agents are innocent until proven guilty.
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
My information comes from the administrative complaint filed on behalf of one of the detained American citizens. Here it is if you care to read it:

http://vvoice.vo.llnwd.net/e6/5636450.0.pdf

If you want to accuse the attorney of lying about the facts found in the report, feel free. I can't imagine, however, any good (or even a really bad) attorney would blatantly lie about a report everyone involved in the case has access to.
From what I read ICE had just cause to question the passengers. Upon seeing the results of the investigation I would say that they did their jobs.
Because a lawyer either disagrees with ICE is not all that relevant. The fact that a lawsuit is being filed by a lawyer only proves that the lawyer feels that they might have a case. In this day and age of sue happy lawyers and gullible juries it is not at all surprising.
36 illegals on one bus. What are the odds that this was an accident?
As for lawyers lieing. I have never met an honest lawyer in my life. Its small wonder so many lawyers go into politics.
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:45 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,383,305 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
1 might wonder why 6 legal citizens were traveling with a bus load of illegals?36 out of 42 were in fact illegals. Coincidence? I think not. If a cop arrests everybody traveling with gang members only to find out 2 were in fact not members of the gang. I would still ask what were they doing traveling with gang bangers?
Do honest citizens normally take bus trips with illegals? None that I know of. Another question might be what kind of convention is it that draws a bus load of illegals?
Would this happen to a bus load of white french speakers? I don't know. Are we being invaded by the french? Are french people in this country illegally counted in the millions?
Perhaps Bautista and Artimas should be a little more selective in the company they keep. When you travel with criminals it is reasonable to expect to be treated like the company you keep.

I would imagine if I were on a flight with a terrorist I would be held for awhile and questioned right along with the terrorists. I'm also held for awhile during a traffic stop while the officer runs my license. It's happened to me several times when cops do random DUI checks. Gosh, and here I could have been a millionaire if the ACLU would have offered to defend me.

Wonder if this has anything to do with the ACLU case against Fremont, Nebraska.
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