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Old 11-16-2010, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Siete View Post
It's more likely to happen to a busload of French Muslims.

A dark skinned acquaintance was on a student bus trip through Georgia in 2002 and suddenly found himself surrounded by locals & the sheriff in a local convenience store demanding to see his papers.
Do French Muslims speak a different dialect of french?
I have quite a few dark skinned friends. All ex military or their families and they live in the south. Odd none have complained about being mistaken for the enemy.
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
9,184 posts, read 10,125,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Siete View Post
It's more likely to happen to a busload of French Muslims.

A dark skinned acquaintance was on a student bus trip through Georgia in 2002 and suddenly found himself surrounded by locals & the sheriff in a local convenience store demanding to see his papers.

Good. We don't want them to feel welcome.
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:00 PM
 
14,920 posts, read 10,720,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
From what I read ICE had just cause to question the passengers. Upon seeing the results of the investigation I would say that they did their jobs.
Because a lawyer either disagrees with ICE is not all that relevant. The fact that a lawsuit is being filed by a lawyer only proves that the lawyer feels that they might have a case. In this day and age of sue happy lawyers and gullible juries it is not at all surprising.
36 illegals on one bus. What are the odds that this was an accident?
As for lawyers lieing. I have never met an honest lawyer in my life. Its small wonder so many lawyers go into politics.
Okay, I get it. You feel that speaking Spanish and wearing "traveling" clothes is probable cause to search and detain people (even after producing a valid, government issued ID). I fervently disagree. It disgusts me as a freedom and liberty loving American. The courts have generally agreed with me, and I'm almost certain they'll find against the US Government in this case.

I have plenty of Spanish speaking friends (I lived in Madrid for a year and can converse in it), and I really enjoy a good road trip. I'd hate to be searched and then hauled off to a Homeland Security Detention Center simply because of those two facts (especially after I'd produced my state of Colorado issued ID card). Then again, I'm white, so I really doubt I'm at risk.
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:06 PM
 
14,920 posts, read 10,720,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
I would imagine if I were on a flight with a terrorist I would be held for awhile and questioned right along with the terrorists.
I really doubt you'd be dragged to a Homeland Security Detention Center (along with the vehicle and everyone and everything in it), physically patted down and searched, jailed, photographed and fingerprinted.

If you were, I'm sure you could count on the ACLU to defend you against the illegal acts committed by the US government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
I'm also held for awhile during a traffic stop while the officer runs my license. It's happened to me several times when cops do random DUI checks. Gosh, and here I could have been a millionaire if the ACLU would have offered to defend me.
These American citizens were not driving. Completely different legal issues.
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Okay, I get it. You feel that speaking Spanish and wearing "traveling" clothes is probable cause to search and detain people (even after producing a valid, government issued ID). I fervently disagree. It disgusts me as a freedom and liberty loving American. The courts have generally agreed with me, and I'm almost certain they'll find against the US Government in this case.

I have plenty of Spanish speaking friends (I lived in Madrid for a year and can converse in it), and I really enjoy a good road trip. I'd hate to be searched and then hauled off to a Homeland Security Detention Center simply because of those two facts (especially after I'd produced my state of Colorado issued ID card). Then again, I'm white, so I really doubt I'm at risk.
Actually I feel that when you travel with a group of 36 criminals that its pretty slim odds that you are innocent of the knowledge that your fellow travelers are criminals.
A valid ID can be and has been faked more times than can be counted. What can I say? If a person doesn't want to be treated like a criminal they might try hanging out with honest people instead.
These people were detained because out of 42 people 36 were illegals. Thats what happens when you surround yourself with illegals. Because they surrounded themselves with illegals their integrity was justifiably in question.
When I was in the Navy some of my shipmates like to go out and get hammered. I didn't travel with them because I didn't want to get arrested with them. More than once a friends of mine got busted for being in the crowd.
As for how the courts will find. I think its a well known fact depending on the political leanings of an individual judge is how a case is determined.
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
I really doubt you'd be dragged to a Homeland Security Detention Center (along with the vehicle and everyone and everything in it), physically patted down and searched, jailed, photographed and fingerprinted.

If you were, I'm sure you could count on the ACLU to defend you against the illegal acts committed by the US government.



These American citizens were not driving. Completely different legal issues.
Well I am certain that if you were caught in the company say 36 out of 42 of criminals then you would be held for questioning.
Hell I have seen sailors by the dozen popped by VA Beach police even though only a few were acting out. The sobber guys would get released with a stern warning later that night.
Just a thought. If you don't like being arrested be more thoughtful about the company you keep.
I am interested to know why Amway was hosting a bus load of illegals.
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,944,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Siete View Post
The ICE officers may have had probable cause. Both officers speak Spanish and overheard a discussion in Spanish by the travelers that made them suspicious. Their suspicions were confirmed as 36 of 42 were illegals, 2 were detained and 34 were released with a promise to appear.

What evidence were the 2 citizens carrying to prove their status? Does a state issued ID card contain residency/citizenship status? What ID does a 'regular American' carry that proves legal residency?

If genuine, a CO state issued ID card does.......

Quote:
There are times when non-driving residents of Colorado will need to show identification, and it’ll be important to have an ID card sanctioned by the Colorado Division of Motor Vehicles. Note: It is unlawful to hold both a state-issued ID card and a drivers license.
To apply for an official Colorado ID card, you must present proof of your full legal name, date of birth, and lawful residency in Colorado. A list of all acceptable proof can be found on the Colorado DMV Website.
Now whether that proves lawful residency in the USA, rather than just Co, I don't know.
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:28 PM
 
14,920 posts, read 10,720,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Well I am certain that if you were caught in the company say 36 out of 42 of criminals then you would be held for questioning.
Hell I have seen sailors by the dozen popped by VA Beach police even though only a few were acting out. The sobber guys would get released with a stern warning later that night.
Just a thought. If you don't like being arrested be more thoughtful about the company you keep.
I am interested to know why Amway was hosting a bus load of illegals.
You keep applying that backwards logic. They weren't subjected to search and detainment because they were known to be in the presence of criminals. The knowledge of the criminals was the OUTCOME of the search, not the PROBABLE CAUSE legally validating the search and detainment of these US citizens. You just seem to think that the ends justify the means. What's next - door to door house searches in Spanish speaking neighborhoods?

As to drinking, if I were sobber (perhaps the designated driver) yet arrested along with a group of drunk people (whether my buddies or not), I'd be furious. I'd file a complaint and strongly consider a law suit.
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,944,131 times
Reputation: 3083
Well until the case comes to court, we're not privy to just WHY the ICE agents took the action they did, though as "native Spanish speakers" I'm sure it wasn't JUST that the defendants were speaking Spanish on it's own, but far more likely the ICE agents overheard something that gave them "probable cause". The RESULTS certainly bore their premise out.
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
You keep applying that backwards logic. They weren't subjected to search and detainment because they were known to be in the presence of criminals. The knowledge of the criminals was the OUTCOME of the search, not the PROBABLE CAUSE legally validating the search and detainment of these US citizens. You just seem to think that the ends justify the means. What's next - door to door house searches in Spanish speaking neighborhoods?

As to drinking, if I were sobber (perhaps the designated driver) yet arrested along with a group of drunk people (whether my buddies or not), I'd be furious. I'd file a complaint and strongly consider a law suit.
We don’t know what transpired in the restaurant. ICE could have overheard them discussing their stolen IDs or other unlawful acts, and did in fact have probable cause.

I’m with tinman. Why was Amway transporting a busload of illegals?
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