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Old 11-16-2010, 10:25 PM
 
14,920 posts, read 10,724,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waianaegirl View Post
What, they can't speak English, if they were born here, they should be able to speak English. This is them just trying to whine about nothing. Get more free money. Who cares if they had ID, it could have been fake. Have you thought of that?
Each time I go to Canada, I get detained. I don't sue anyone. People are just pathetic.
Ummmmm, they speak perfectly fine English. And, the ID's aren't fake (since they're natural born US Citizens and all). So yeah, any other completely made up false information you want to get out there........?
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,948,309 times
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Quote:
Seventeen of the 36 people were released on "humanitarian grounds" after they were issued notices to appear before a federal immigration judge. The remaining 19 bonded out of detention.

I'd LOVE to know what the "humanitarian grounds" were for releasing the 17 - illegal isn't illegal anymore apparently. Bet the immigration courts never see any of the 35 again either
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
I'd LOVE to know what the "humanitarian grounds" were for releasing the 17 - illegal isn't illegal anymore apparently. Bet the immigration courts never see any of the 35 again either
They probably have anchors. That’s generally the “humanitarian” excuse being used to release illegals. Of course citizen criminals don’t have children.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:47 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
Even the American "suckers"...?

which leads me to ask. What if you were on a bus, asked to produce identification and detaine, photographed and finger printed? No big whoop?

What if this happened every time you traveled some place, would that be cool?
I would like to have it happen to me if I always rode on buses with mainly illegals and I couldn't speak English.

That's their choice, they might have had mothers that managed to get over here in time to give birth to them but they have not become Americans in any other way - so obviously they're going to be mistaken for foreigners.

How is this different than being arrested when you're at a party where almost everyone is doing drugs? Or you just happen to be with a friend while he robbed a bank?
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:53 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
They were suspected of being illegal, and were later released. That is standard procedure for law enforcement. Are you suggesting only citizens should be considered suspects, and anyone who “may be” an illegal should be off-limits for questioning by police?

Furthermore, SB 1070 does not presume guilt. An illegal must first violate a law. But then, you know this.
Yes - profiling is only fine when it suits the open borders crowd. In this case it was obviously not profiling - both illegals and a couple citizens by birth were checked out.

Imagine if only the illegals had been taken in for questioning? The La Raza types would be up in arms over obvious profiling then. There was no profiling in this case.

In all kinds of crimes, others might be going along with the criminals just for the ride - drinking parties where some minor age children are gettting drunk can be bust up by the cops and non-drinking kids hauled in, bank robberies with accomplices.

These people were at the very least aiding and abetting, they knew crimes were being committed but made no effort to report the crimes. I suspect they were the traffickers themselves, escorting their smuggled group of human cargo to destinations.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:58 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
I understand your points (things can be faked - states sometimes give IDs without proof of legal authority to be in the US). However, in the US we afford people the presumption of innocence and we forbid the government from searching (and or course detaining) without probable cause.

Again, the issue here is did the government have probable cause to search these people. From all the information available, the probable cause was that they were speaking Spanish and were clothed in a manner that suggested travel - although the complaint points out that "the (ICE) report provides no details to explain what Minze (the ICE agent) meant by 'the dress of the individuals'".

I hate to think that speaking Spanish and dressing in a certain way is enough probable cause to give the US Government the authority to stop and question me, and even then detain me after I produce a valid, government issued, state ID upon request

I often go out-and-about without my ID. If I don't need my wallet, I generally don't take. There's no law in the US requiring people to carry ID (there's not even any requirement that you HAVE an ID). I guess I should be very careful not to speak Spanish and wear comfortable travel clothes on these occasions. Who knows how long I'll end up spending at a Homeland Security Detention Center trying to prove I'm here legally.
I'm a whole lot concerned about the problems real Americans face in places like airports - why are Americans who are clearly Americans, can speak English, actually know something about the USA, being x-rayed and groped like criminals?

And you people can only care about a couple of Mexicans who are US by birth - dual citizens or anchor babies?

I also think it's fair when Middle Eastern terrorists are here that their US born children are investigated along with them. US citizenship doesn't make someone a saint.

In this case, obviously crimes were being committed and these two were going right along with it all.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Ummmmm, they speak perfectly fine English. And, the ID's aren't fake (since they're natural born US Citizens and all). So yeah, any other completely made up false information you want to get out there........?
Why are you belaboring the issue? What proof do you have that these people aren’t simply trying to get paid? It certainly wouldn’t be the first frivolous lawsuit. Contrary to your belief, there are countless slimy lawyers who would take this case, or even encourage a lawsuit for personal gain. By your own admission, the passengers probably weren’t earning much working for Amway. Perhaps they considered this is an opportune time to get rich.

In my opinion, the most plausible reason for the search would be that ICE overheard something incriminating. It doesn’t make sense that they would question the legal status of these people solely on the basis of their language. Who knows what they were discussing in the restaurant. They could have been expressing their fear of deportation, or their fear of getting caught with stolen or fake ID. I would venture to say, there were other Spanish-speaking people in the restaurant, so why would they target this one particular group? I’m not buying their story.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:06 AM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,086,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
The terrorist attacks on 9/11 have changed the rules; likewise, massive illegal immigration. Prior to the invasion, this incident would not have occurred. The majority of passengers were illegal. They should blame them for their inconvenience. Perhaps this experience will teach them not to cavort with criminals.
the attacks of 911 did NOT change the Constitution of the United States.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
the attacks of 911 did NOT change the Constitution of the United States.
I didn’t say the terrorist attacks changed the Constitution. I said the attacks changed our policies, likewise MASSIVE illegal immigration. How difficult is that to comprehend?
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:04 AM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,086,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I didn’t say the terrorist attacks changed the Constitution. I said the attacks changed our policies, likewise MASSIVE illegal immigration. How difficult is that to comprehend?
I comprehend your trying to say policies have changed...but in this story's context; in which, two Ameircan cirtizens were detained in a Immigration sweep, then in that context you and your assesments are incorrect.
Quote:
...The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

from the 4th amendedment to the Constitution of the US
In that context...those two American Citizen's Constitutional Rights HAVE NOT CHANGEd...That I do understand.
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