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Old 11-17-2010, 07:52 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
1,472 posts, read 2,913,457 times
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While it gripes me that our state, the entire American Southwest and seemingly now the rest of the country is so impacted by illegal immigration, the California Supreme Court was separating the issue of illegal immigration from criteria needed for qualifying for in state tuition. Namely if a student spend three years in a California high school and graduates that student qualifies for in state tuition, regardless of their immigration status. Regardless of immigration status a child in this state must go to school through the 10th grade as well. Its not a Democrat, Republican or immigration issue. It has to do with the education statutes on the books and the California Supreme Court's decision on the matter.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Escondido, CA
1,504 posts, read 5,343,291 times
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Allow me to quote one well known congressman:

Quote:
Each year, about fifty thousand young undocumented immigrants graduate from high school in the United States. Most of them came to this country with their parents as small children and have been raised here just like their U.S. citizen classmates. They view themselves as Americans, and are loyal to our country. Some may not even realize that they are here in violation of our immigration laws. They grow up to become honest and hardworking adolescents and young adults, and strive for academic as well as professional excellence.
Many of these youngsters find themselves caught in a catch-22 situation. As illegal immigrants, they cannot work legally. Moreover, they are effectively barred from developing academically beyond high school because of the high cost of pursuing higher education. Private colleges and universities are very expensive, and under current federal law, state institutions cannot grant in-state tuition to illegal immigrants, regardless of how long they have resided in that state. To make matters worse, as illegal immigrants, these young people are ineligible for federal tuition assistance. Moreover, these young people have no independent way of becoming legal residents of the United States.
In short, though these children have built their lives here, they have no possibility of achieving and living the American dream. What a tremendous loss to our society....

Our laws should not discourage those with bright young minds from seeking higher education. We should instead assist and encourage the many “Dannys” who are in the United States and who have the dedication and drive to achieve their worthy goals.
Who's going to be the first to name the person who said this?
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:58 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 30,413,544 times
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And the courts have done such a fine job engineering our society, right? They're supposed to uphold law, not make it.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:01 PM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula
14,116 posts, read 14,202,666 times
Reputation: 9971
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffredo View Post
While it gripes me that our state, the entire American Southwest and seemingly now the rest of the country is so impacted by illegal immigration, the California Supreme Court was separating the issue of illegal immigration from criteria needed for qualifying for in state tuition. Namely if a student spend three years in a California high school and graduates that student qualifies for in state tuition, regardless of their immigration status. Regardless of immigration status a child in this state must go to school through the 10th grade as well. Its not a Democrat, Republican or immigration issue. It has to do with the education statutes on the books and the California Supreme Court's decision on the matter.
Well that's exactly it. I don't like it but their reasoning is sound. What they told us is that they aren't going to whittle and nit pick at illegal aliens, that if society and the government want to solve the illegal alien problem then they are going to have to address the problem directly, rather than picking and gutter sniping it away.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:02 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,567,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hartford_renter View Post
You guys are in massive debt. They just INCREASED tuition 8% for students?

Why ON EARTH are you paying for illegals to go to school?

Can I get a democrats perspective on why this is a good idea, I already understand the Republican minority perspective.

IMO it makes no sense
I think it actually relatively simple. In cold economic terms you should not pay for the illegal child if you believe he will end up deported.

If however he is not going to be deported than it is always better to keep paying for the education. A person who has not graduated from high school will be a burden on the society. You will pay more to keep that person than you will receive from that person in taxes. A person who graduates from high school is roughly break even...you will get from the person about what he costs.

Bust as you add years of college the person becomes positive and more positive and joins those paying more in than they take out.

If you really believe, in the end game, we are going to deport most or a majority of those educated in CA...then you should oppose residence tuition. If not you should support it.

Arguments about depriving a Californian of a seat are invalid. The are both Californians and, if both are staying in CA through adulthood let us educated the smartest.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:02 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 30,413,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esmith143 View Post
Allow me to quote one well known congressman:

Who's going to be the first to name the person who said this?
Republican U.S. Senator Orrin Hatch
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
31,598 posts, read 53,251,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
And the courts have done such a fine job engineering our society, right? They're supposed to uphold law, not make it.
If we could brand just this on judges' foreheads.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:32 PM
 
Location: State of Jefferson coast
965 posts, read 2,542,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Because college graduates will pay more taxes and contribute more to society than prison inmates, seems fairly simple.
Yes it does...too simple to be reasonable. While many studies have tried to find evidence of a causal relationship between education and proclivity for crime, only correlational relationships can be found...and they are rather weak ones at that. Students with stronger ethical values are more likely to try to maximize their opportunities with higher education. There is absolutely no reason to believe that students with lower ethical values who end up attending college are somehow "converted" from the ethical culture they were raised with or "toe the line" with regard to the behavior of their peers. All the best research suggests that basic right vs. wrong indoctrination is mostly complete by the time kids enter Kindergarten. There is also good reason to believe that well-educated persons are better at covering their tracks and are thus less likely to be caught committing white-collar crime than are poorer less-educated persons (just ask Bernie Madoff, a graduate of Hofstra College).

In any event, we have a glut of white-collar professionals at the moment and for the foreseeable future. Subsidizing the education of persons not legally entitled to be here only increases the magnet effect. There will not be work for them when they graduate.

Experts say good-paying, white-collar jobs aren
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara
1,474 posts, read 2,589,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hartford_renter View Post
Right, I agree with that in theory. Educating illegals is, in ISOLATION a positive.

Except by spending on illegals, you HURT the regular CA citizen, who doesn't get FREE TUITION.

That's why it doesn't make sense

Think about it
Next year the tuition for a UC is going up to 12K for IN STATE residents and illegal immigrants who have been in school in CA for over 3 years. There is nothing free about it. Perhaps they will get scholarships or other aid but that is because they will have been able to qualify for such aid by getting good grades or meeting some other criteria.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Escondido, CA
1,504 posts, read 5,343,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Republican U.S. Senator Orrin Hatch
Indeed. Almost makes him sould like a bleeding heart liberal, doesn't it? That's the difference between old-school, sensible Republicans (Mr. Hatch is currently tied as the longest-serving Republican senator, he took the office in 1977), and the modern party of hate.
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