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Old 11-17-2010, 05:46 PM
 
1,679 posts, read 2,486,673 times
Reputation: 1284

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You guys are in massive debt. They just INCREASED tuition 8% for students?

Why ON EARTH are you paying for illegals to go to school?

Can I get a democrats perspective on why this is a good idea, I already understand the Republican minority perspective.

IMO it makes no sense
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:08 PM
 
Location: San Jose, CA
7,677 posts, read 24,979,385 times
Reputation: 3527
MOD CUT
It's simple: the more educated our populace is, the better off we are as a state and as an economy. If we don't support community colleges and give poor first- or second-generation immigrants a chance to become good, contributing members of society, then they simply won't. They will resort to crime and then we will pay even more to deport them or keep them in prison.

But, MOD CUT will say, if we give them the carrot of opportunity, then they will come in greater numbers. Well, I say to you, welcome to America. That's exactly why your ancestors came here in the first place. And by saying "I can have opportunities, but they can't," you are, in fact, being anti-American and seeking to strip this great country of the finest quality it has.

Last edited by NewToCA; 11-17-2010 at 09:37 PM.. Reason: rude
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:16 PM
 
5,906 posts, read 6,354,513 times
Reputation: 5447
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonarrat View Post
MOD CUT

It's simple: the more educated our populace is, the better off we are as a state and as an economy. If we don't support community colleges and give poor first- or second-generation immigrants a chance to become good, contributing members of society, then they simply won't. They will resort to crime and then we will pay even more to deport them or keep them in prison.

But, MOD CUT will say, if we give them the carrot of opportunity, then they will come in greater numbers. Well, I say to you, welcome to America. That's exactly why your ancestors came here in the first place. And by saying "I can have opportunities, but they can't," you are, in fact, being anti-American and seeking to strip this great country of the finest quality it has.
That's great in theory, but the state is suffering from school overcrowding. Your post does not address the massive costs associated with your generous offer.

Last edited by NewToCA; 11-17-2010 at 09:37 PM..
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:16 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 7,339,188 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
Why are you Paying for Illegals College?
Because college graduates will pay more taxes and contribute more to society than prison inmates, seems fairly simple.

Quote:
That's great in theory, but the state is suffering from school overcrowding. Your post does not address the massive costs associated with your generous offer
We are talking about college, California colleges are not suffering from school overcrowding, there is no generous offer, the children who qualify for college will pay the same as any other resident.
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
31,578 posts, read 53,114,182 times
Reputation: 14501
Hartford_Renter,
You guys always complain about this but NEVER offer up a solution about what to do with the illegal aliens who are here.

Just say it. You want us to deport all 12 Million of them right away.

First of all, this is a Federal Problem, if you want to point a finger, do it at DC because states(like CA and AZ and TX etc) are coping with the INABILITY of the Fed to do its damn job in the first place which is to secure our borders. That's number 1.

If anything we shouldnt be deporting them back to Mexico or China or wherever, but what we should be doing is putting them on charter buses and sending them to Washington DC and then charging the fed for the cost to transport them.

This is the ultimate in the federal government dragging its feet and then demanding the states deal with a problem created by DC.

But since they are here many for nearly a generation, we are not going to tear families apart, we are not going to change the US Constitution so that being born here does NOT automatically make a baby a citizen-that's ludicrous.

No, I believe that where we can create productive residents, we should take that opportunity. As with any other group, if we don't help them to assimilate into our society through education(which I firmly believe is the great equalizer of all peoples), then there are forces in the community that will lead them into crime, drugs, gangs and so on.

If there are illegals who are felons or have committed serious crimes, they must GO. No argument there.

But with respect to educating children(be they illegal or legal), I look at it this way, either we pay to school them now or we pay to jail them later.

I prefer the former.
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:19 PM
 
1,679 posts, read 2,486,673 times
Reputation: 1284
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonarrat View Post
MOD CUT

It's simple: the more educated our populace is, the better off we are as a state and as an economy. If we don't support community colleges and give poor first- or second-generation immigrants a chance to become good, contributing members of society, then they simply won't. They will resort to crime and then we will pay even more to deport them or keep them in prison.

But, MOD CUT will say, if we give them the carrot of opportunity, then they will come in greater numbers. Well, I say to you, welcome to America. That's exactly why your ancestors came here in the first place. And by saying "I can have opportunities, but they can't," you are, in fact, being anti-American and seeking to strip this great country of the finest quality it has.
Right, I agree with that in theory. Educating illegals is, in ISOLATION a positive.

Except by spending on illegals, you HURT the regular CA citizen, who doesn't get FREE TUITION.

That's why it doesn't make sense

Think about it

Last edited by NewToCA; 11-17-2010 at 09:38 PM..
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:22 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 7,339,188 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
Except by spending on illegals, you HURT the regular CA citizen, who doesn't get FREE TUITION.
Go read the newspaper, see if you can figure out the difference between instate tuition and free tuition.
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:24 PM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula
13,554 posts, read 14,051,705 times
Reputation: 9663
This seems hauntingly similar to a topic on the same subject that already got closed by the moderators because it became a discussion about illegal aliens.

Illegal alien CA residents aren't getting free tuition. They're simply getting the same rate that other California residents get, the "in-state" rate.

No free tuition deals here.
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:27 PM
 
1,679 posts, read 2,486,673 times
Reputation: 1284
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Hartford_Renter,
You guys always complain about this but NEVER offer up a solution about what to do with the illegal aliens who are here.

Just say it. You want us to deport all 12 Million of them right away.

First of all, this is a Federal Problem, if you want to point a finger, do it at DC because states(like CA and AZ and TX etc) are coping with the INABILITY of the Fed to do its damn job in the first place which is to secure our borders. That's number 1.

If anything we shouldnt be deporting them back to Mexico or China or wherever, but what we should be doing is putting them on charter buses and sending them to Washington DC and then charging the fed for the cost to transport them.

This is the ultimate in the federal government dragging its feet and then demanding the states deal with a problem created by DC.

But since they are here many for nearly a generation, we are not going to tear families apart, we are not going to change the US Constitution so that being born here does NOT automatically make a baby a citizen-that's ludicrous.

No, I believe that where we can create productive residents, we should take that opportunity. As with any other group, if we don't help them to assimilate into our society through education(which I firmly believe is the great equalizer of all peoples), then there are forces in the community that will lead them into crime, drugs, gangs and so on.

If there are illegals who are felons or have committed serious crimes, they must GO. No argument there.

But with respect to educating children(be they illegal or legal), I look at it this way, either we pay to school them now or we pay to jail them later.

I prefer the former.
1. I want to spend the tax dollars as efficiently as possible. Don't really care if there are illegals here unless these people are costing us money. Don't dislike illegals or want to deport all of them.

2. I think you make a good argument, about paying for school or jail but if you are hurting the citizen, because if you think about it if you pay for an illegal, you are rejecting one Californian. Does this make sense? It doesn't

3. You are RAISING the tuition on everyone else, by 8%. I mean I don't even live in your state, and when I heard this, I had to ask, WHAT ARE DEMOCRATS THINKING???

4. Also isn't your income tax like 10% you are almost BANKRUPT? Aren't you at all interested in making cuts any place??!! I honestly for THE LOVE OF GOD CANNOT UNDERSTAND???

BTW I mean In state tuition, not free tuition.
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
31,578 posts, read 53,114,182 times
Reputation: 14501
Quote:
Originally Posted by hartford_renter View Post
1. I want to spend the tax dollars as efficiently as possible. Don't really care if there are illegals here unless these people are costing us money. Don't dislike illegals or want to deport all of them.

2. I think you make a good argument, about paying for school or jail but if you are hurting the citizen, because if you think about it if you pay for an illegal, you are rejecting one Californian. Does this make sense? It doesn't

3. You are RAISING the tuition on everyone else, by 8%. I mean I don't even live in your state, and when I heard this, I had to ask, WHAT ARE DEMOCRATS THINKING???

4. Also isn't your income tax like 10% you are almost BANKRUPT? Aren't you at all interested in making cuts any place??!! I honestly for THE LOVE OF GOD CANNOT UNDERSTAND???

BTW I mean In state tuition, not free tuition.
Valid arguments, but the root of this problem is 3,000 miles away from California. And we should be reimbursed by the fed for every penny we spend on them.

In the meantime, the state is making due with the situation we have in front of us.

Furthermore, I don't know of any Californians that can't afford college being turned away in favor of an Illegal. All you have to do is fill out a FAFSA online or turn it in at the Financial Aid office.

As far as In-state tuition, the Illegal alien must prove that he/she attended at least 3 years of high school in California before they qualify for In-state tuition, so its not like some kid crossing the border yesterday is going to pay in-state tuition. That's not what is happening.
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