U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 12-01-2010, 01:48 PM
 
Location: SELA
532 posts, read 878,593 times
Reputation: 227

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Very cute.

Except, um, that in this case, the "fifth column with dual or foreign loyalties seeking to undermine the U.S. from within...".... um..... actually has a website, exists in the form of student groups on college campuses, and actually protests in the street shouting slogans and advertising their agenda on painted large signs that even Helen Keller could understand. Proving they, um, exist.

Really guy, it must physically hurt the way you bend and twist in an attempt to avoid and ignore the obvious.
Yes, guy, as I've commented, there is more nationalistic-irredentist nostalgia in former Confederate states than there is in the Southwest. Apart from the retention of CSA iconography on their flags, monuments, and symbols, this is defended as a celebration of their "heritage" despite the fact that it this legacy represents a formal wartime enemy of the United States that caused a civil war that killed hundreds of thousands of people. If there is any celebration of the Mexican cultural legacy in the Southwest, however, this is immediately branded a "treasonous" sentiment by rightist pundits and many rank-and-file supporters.

That said, it is entirely counterintuitive for Mesoamerican immigrants to be supportive of Mexican annexation of the Southwestern region. Aside from the fact that many of those immigrants are not Mexican, a distinction blurred by the crudity of the popular misconception of "they're all the same," the vast majority are of Mesoamerican Indian extraction. They are subject to the discrimination of racial stratification in Mexican society. In some cases, this has actually meant violent insurrection against the Mexican government, as with the Zapatistas in Chiapas and the Magonistas in Oaxaca, the poorest and second-poorest states in Mexico, respectively, and heavily Indian. So the "reconquista" conspiracy theory, as I see it, can only be maintained as long as the popular misconception of "Mexicans" and "Hispanics" as a race is. Since you and I know better than that, I'm sure you'll be vigilant in correcting this fallacy when it pops up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I don't believe in dual citizenship regardless of where someone is from. Anchor babies are all babies born on our soil from illegal parents, not just Mexicans. Stating that a certain culture based on ethnocentricism and non-assimilation is not compatible to ours is just a fact. No, non-Mexicans are not exempt if they fit the same descriptions.
And as I said, similar ethnic stereotypes characterized the thought patterns of "national security" proponents that advocated Japanese internment during WWII. They also characterize the thought patterns of white supremacists today:

Aztlan & La Raza Latrinos Celebration Plan for White Ethnic Cleansing

"This is a more dangerous movement than some of you may realize. Jewtube it and you'll see."

"I strongly agree. Their sheer numbers make them a very real threat to US stability."

"Agreed. For those of us here in So Cal and else where in the Southwest already know, these Mexicans are truly taking over large parts of America through sheer numbers alone.

After moving in and saturating an area, their high birth rates perpetuates a virtually unstoppable cycle. Before you know it, your city looks like Tijuana. Then the culture of the city is replaced with that of Tujuana...like L.A. of today.

For those of you in parts of the US without a Mexican problem (yet), I cannot urge you strongly enough to keep them away from your cities and towns."

"This is treasonous filth. Am I going crazy? These people should be executed. They are out in the open about how they are going to take a chunk off of our country, while already residing in our country!

Anybody in those states listed better move on out or pile up the sandbags and dig some trenches, an army of crazed mexcriment will get too excited about any revolution and make sure it comes to pass ASAP."

"Indeed. They already HAVE destabilized the U.S. California, one of the largest and most populous states, is on the brink of total collapse, and many other major population centers are right on its heels! It's a nightmare come true...

...once Obammy and his minions grant them amnesty (legal status) and are swept into the fold of "universal" healthcare, it will essentially be CHECKMATE!!!

UNLESS LIBERAL WHITES AND OBLIVIOUS WHITE FENCE-SITTERS WAKE FROM THEIR SLUMBER OF SIMPERING SLOTH AND SUICIDAL SENILITY!!!"

"Yes, a very dangerous and subversive organization. They've infiltrated and invaded all strata of our country: social, economic, political. Now they will try consolidation, control, and confiscation of the US."

"Having lived in the southwest all my life I can say without hesitation that the Mexican takeover is our people's foremost threat. It is more serious than wars for Israel. It is worse than black criminality. And it is more of a problem than a fumbling economy (which is largely the result of the mestizos anyway). God help us expel these vermin."

"If you haven't seen this video yet, you need to see this. These enemy combatants have representatives in state and federal government positions. Most of the hispanic politicians have roots in the radical hispanic reconquista movement, particularly MEChA "

This phenomenon is understandable enough. Perceptions of threats to personal safety coupled with association of the aggressors with a specific ethnic group leads to bigotry against that ethnic group, as indicated by Echebarria-Echabe and Fernández-Guede's Effects of terrorism on attitudes and ideological orientation. As put in the abstract, "A quasi-experimental study on the effects of terrorism on racial prejudice and ideological orientation is presented. Two independent samples were contacted before and after the Islamic terrorist attacks against railways in Madrid (11 March 2004). Anti-Arab and anti-Semite prejudices, authoritarianism and ideological orientations (liberal against conservative) were evaluated. Results showed that those terrorist attacks provoked changes in a reactionary and conservative direction: stronger prejudices not only against the target group (Arabs), but against another uninvolved group (Jewish); an increase in authoritarianism; stronger attachment to traditional conservative values, and a reduction in the attachment to liberal values."

Individuals who have been conditoned to conceptualize immigration patterns and demographic changes as a "national security" threat will consequently express the same bigotry. While not identical, your white populism is a potential conduit to that form of supremacist mentality, and they rest on many of the same axiomatic foundations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post
Someone needs to tell the Apaches in Arizona this!! They believe it was the Europeans and now call the Mexicans,the Spanish, their brothers.....next!!

Actually, I am an Apache on my father's side, albeit a non-Arizonan Apache. I would seek the support of Apaches in the pan-Indian ideal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
No, the Apaches do not consider Mexicans to be their brothers. In fact they was much animosity between the Apaches and the Mexicans and there still is.

Actually, there was animosity between numerous Apaches and the Mexican government, because the Mexican federal government and Chihuahuan state government placed bounties on Apache scalps (which led to widespread murders of many other Indians because their scalps weren't distinct from Apache scalps), which is a central reason for the conflict that existed with Mangas Coloradas, Cochise, Victorio, Juh, Geronimo, etc. If "Mexicans" is defined to include all people in Mexico, then essentially the most quintessential Apache raiders, the Nedhni band of the Chiricahua tribe, who lived in the Sierra Madre Occidental in Chihuahua, are defined as enemies of "Apaches." Apaches are not a "tribe," nor any other sort of homogenous entity; they are a cultural group with numerous tribes within, something that includes the numerous Apache tribes incorporated into the federally recognized tribes of Arizona, the White Mountain and San Carlos tribes. I say this as a person whose paternal family is from Mescalero-Chiricahua-Lipan cultural territory around El Paso, Juarez, and Las Cruces, not as a white person whose "great-grandmother" or something is from the Oklahoma Kiowa. Please do not continue to make such historically and anthropologically erroneous statements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post
Really!!.........Native Americans in Arizona Vow to Deport All Non-Native Americans*|*GlossyNews.com
Short of declaring war on the Arizona government, Chief Standing Wolf instead issued a warning “reverse your laws entitling only English-speaking people to inhabit Arizona. Only then will we back down and allow peace to again grace Arizona, but if you deny our fellow red and brown men their rightful place in this state, there will be bloodshed.”

Apaches, were probably, the most hated tribe, even by other Indians. They still go around poking fingers in the States eye.
That piece is satirical, though it makes the point. I wouldn't have included the section about "bloodshed," however.

 
Old 12-01-2010, 02:19 PM
 
Location: SELA
532 posts, read 878,593 times
Reputation: 227
Incidentally, while I dislike many facets of the Mexica Movement specifically,we as Native Americans will be a step closer to realizing the pan-Indian ideal when U.S. Indians reach a wider awareness that their interests are aligned with those of Indians of other countries, in this case those of Mexico and northern Central American countries, as a result of Indian phenotypic features being used as the means of identifying "Hispanics."

Indian Blood | Southern Poverty Law Center

Quote:
Many incidents of violence against American Indians are easy to identify as racially motivated crimes, such as the assault last July 30 on 16-year-old Jordan Gruver at a county fair in Brandenburg, Ky. According to law enforcement reports, Gruver was beaten, kicked, spit on and doused with whiskey by two Klan skinheads who mistook him for an illegal immigrant. As they began their assault, calling him a "****," Gruver protested that he was actually Native American. But what his race was apparently didn't matter to his tormentors so much as the race he wasn't -- white -- and they proceeded to break his jaw, ribs, wrist and teeth.

The assault on Gruver was, by all appearances, a case of violence motivated primarily by prejudice and racial hatred -- Gruver was not robbed, did not know his attackers, and was apparently chosen at random in a public place, based on the color of his skin.
Southwestern Indians will probably be the first in realizing this. Urban Southwestern Indians, often with Spanish surnames because of colonial history, are often indistinguishable from darker-skinned "Hispanics," particularly youths. That is a central reason why the government of the Tohono O'odham Nation passed a resolution of opposition to SB 1070, in which it is stated, "WHEREAS, although Native Arnericans have been present in what is now Arizona since time immemorial, many tribal members speak English as a second language, do not speak English, or were not issued birth certificates and lack documentation establishing their citizenshlp and lawful residence in the United States; and SB 1070 therefore will expose Arizona tribal members to arrest if they are suspected of being illegal allens and cannot document their citizenship or lawful presence in the United States; and WHEREAS, SB 1070 provides that a tribal member who can show a tribal enrollment card or other tribal identification will be 'presumed' not to be an illegal alien, but the Nation opposes any state law requirement that members carry proof, under threat of arrest, that they are lawfully present within their aboriginal homelands; and because the Nation's reservation and other Arizona Indian reservations contain state highway rights-of-way and other lands on which the state exercises jurisdiction, SB 1070 may be enforced within areas on tribal reservations and the Nation's members frequently travel outside the Nation's lands and may be subjected to enforcement of SB 1070 in the cities, towns and roadways outside the reservation..."
 
Old 12-01-2010, 03:15 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,166,436 times
Reputation: 2130
I question Chief Standing Wolf's remarks because Az is not trying to make it an all white, English speaking state. That is an utter BS remark on his part. Az is merely trying to enforce immigration law. In the meantime there are an array of skin colors and ethnicities living legally in Az. I am really sick of these lies!

"Of course, Chief Standing Wolf was speaking in his native tongue, so the lawmakers in the State weren’t exactly sure what the message was".

Well there you have no one knows for sure what the Chief was saying and he certainly didn't say that Mexicans living in AZ illegally were his brothers.
 
Old 12-01-2010, 03:49 PM
 
Location: SELA
532 posts, read 878,593 times
Reputation: 227
Did you miss something? The piece with "Chief Standing Wolf" is satirical.
 
Old 12-02-2010, 01:09 AM
 
76 posts, read 172,417 times
Reputation: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by antarez View Post
Hah!!! You can hardly compare these ethnocentrists to the Japanese of anytime.The Japanese have proved themselves as a SELF SUFFICIENT group that didn't demand and expect undeserving handouts.
YOU FAILED,TRY AGAIN!!!!
How many Japanese Americans do you see in Welfare Lines,demanding imaginary rights,starting anti-US orginizations.

It is 2010 and how many Japanese ANCHOR BABIES do you know of and how many cities have they ruined with crime and graffitti?

Look at pictures of major Japanese cities and homes,what do you see?
It's amazing that they are CLEAN and not trash strewn with graffitti everywhere.Your Fake Indians can learn alot from them.
I'm JA and would appreciate if you didn't use me as a way to beat up on undocumented immigrants.

As for welfare, a big problem the JA community faces is that the government doesn't really offer Japanese language services anymore, and outreach to the community is limited, so while we are entitled to benefits that we've paid taxes for, we don't get them because we don't know about them.

Also, by the standards of you immigrant bashers, we might have an anti-US group. The JACL supports the Dream Act. They have also supported Muslim and Arab-Americans facing racism today. I guess you'd consider that anti-US.

Perhaps you would have liked the old JACL of WW2, which was run by a man who regularly informed on his community to the government. Arguably, in exchange for being an informant/rat/snitch, the JACL was allowed to exist while the government cracked down on JAs who stood up for the JAs being sent to concentration camps.
 
Old 12-02-2010, 01:26 AM
 
3,860 posts, read 3,171,356 times
Reputation: 2462
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildgift View Post
I'm JA and would appreciate if you didn't use me as a way to beat up on undocumented immigrants.

As for welfare, a big problem the JA community faces is that the government doesn't really offer Japanese language services anymore, and outreach to the community is limited, so while we are entitled to benefits that we've paid taxes for, we don't get them because we don't know about them.

Also, by the standards of you immigrant bashers, we might have an anti-US group. The JACL supports the Dream Act. They have also supported Muslim and Arab-Americans facing racism today. I guess you'd consider that anti-US.

Perhaps you would have liked the old JACL of WW2, which was run by a man who regularly informed on his community to the government. Arguably, in exchange for being an informant/rat/snitch, the JACL was allowed to exist while the government cracked down on JAs who stood up for the JAs being sent to concentration camps.
Get over yourself.Who's using you.And get current it's 2010!At least get your facts straight it's ILLEGAL Aliens and yes they can keep Dreaming.
 
Old 12-02-2010, 01:31 AM
 
76 posts, read 172,417 times
Reputation: 58
Just another point about Japan and immigration - anti-immigration laws in the 1920s effectively ended Japanese immigration. Immigration wasn't allowed again until the 1950s, and by then economic growth was strong and there was little reason to emigrate from Japan unless you wanted to leave.

Today, it's not so difficult to emigrate from Japan. For one thing, nearly everyone there graduates from high school, so, once you're old enough, you can get a student visa and attend school in the US. Then, you can focus on getting a degree that gets you into a job that will get you a green card. Also, due to the war and occupation, English is taught widely in schools.

In contrast, graduating high school in Mexico is a little less common. College is far more expensive for Mexicans who earn a lot less money than Americans. The structure of Mexican society doesn't bring the people up to a level where they can easily get on the lowest rung of the US immigration ladder.

At the same time, urbanization and neoliberalism have created a workforce that acquires the skills necessary to subsist in a modern economy. Many Mexicans have urban, modern lifeways and job skills that can earn them more money in the US.
 
Old 12-02-2010, 01:40 AM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,970,981 times
Reputation: 3083
[quote=wildgift;16852613]Just another point about Japan and immigration - anti-immigration laws in the 1920s effectively ended Japanese immigration. Immigration wasn't allowed again until the 1950s, and by then economic growth was strong and there was little reason to emigrate from Japan unless you wanted to leave.

Today, it's not so difficult to emigrate from Japan. For one thing, nearly everyone there graduates from high school, so, once you're old enough, you can get a student visa and attend school in the US. Then, you can focus on getting a degree that gets you into a job that will get you a green card. Also, due to the war and occupation, English is taught widely in schools.

In contrast, graduating high school in Mexico is a little less common. College is far more expensive for Mexicans who earn a lot less money than Americans. The structure of Mexican society doesn't bring the people up to a level where they can easily get on the lowest rung of the US immigration ladder.

At the same time, urbanization and neoliberalism have created a workforce that acquires the skills necessary to subsist in a modern economy. Many Mexicans have urban, modern lifeways and job skills that can earn them more money in the US.[/quote]


Then let them come here as LEGAL migrants, NOT by illegally hopping the border.
 
Old 12-02-2010, 08:27 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,166,436 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildgift View Post
I'm JA and would appreciate if you didn't use me as a way to beat up on undocumented immigrants.

As for welfare, a big problem the JA community faces is that the government doesn't really offer Japanese language services anymore, and outreach to the community is limited, so while we are entitled to benefits that we've paid taxes for, we don't get them because we don't know about them.

Also, by the standards of you immigrant bashers, we might have an anti-US group. The JACL supports the Dream Act. They have also supported Muslim and Arab-Americans facing racism today. I guess you'd consider that anti-US.

Perhaps you would have liked the old JACL of WW2, which was run by a man who regularly informed on his community to the government. Arguably, in exchange for being an informant/rat/snitch, the JACL was allowed to exist while the government cracked down on JAs who stood up for the JAs being sent to concentration camps.
You lost the argument when you called us "immigrant" bashers. Illegal aliens aren't immigrants and it them that we oppose, not immigrants. We will not use the PC term "undocumented immigrants" either. It is just smoke and mirrors to take away from their "illegal" status. Illegal aliens is the correct terminology.
 
Old 12-02-2010, 11:24 AM
 
Location: SELA
532 posts, read 878,593 times
Reputation: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
You lost the argument when you called us "immigrant" bashers. Illegal aliens aren't immigrants and it them that we oppose, not immigrants. We will not use the PC term "undocumented immigrants" either. It is just smoke and mirrors to take away from their "illegal" status. Illegal aliens is the correct terminology.
According to the dictionary, an "immigrant" is, "a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence." Please elaborate on the way that "illegal aliens" fail to meet this definition.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top