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Old 12-06-2010, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
Reputation: 4611

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
mk, your problem is with the constitution, I do not compare illegal with legal, it is the constitution that says ALL persons are equal and have rights when on US soil.

it is the constitution that sees no distinction not me.

Dewmik said it best of all

This is not the constitution speaking. You posted it, and that's what I was refering to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
the constitution does not say they are special. the 14th amendment "seems" to say all people legal or not, on US soil are afforded protection and equal rights. which is why an illegal or anyone can put up a legal "fight" for whatever they choose.

Quote:
as to this group picking and choosing what law they abide by
Quote:
most people do the same thing. we pick and choose if we obey the speed limit or if we rob a bank
.
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Old 12-06-2010, 08:43 PM
 
13,496 posts, read 13,971,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
This is not the constitution speaking. You posted it, and that's what I was refering to.
yes, I posted that the constitution does not distinguish between illegal and legal. it isn't just my opinion it is how the constitution is interpreted and the reason why illegals are able to fight the system. legal or not they have the right merely by being on US soil, like it or not
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Old 12-06-2010, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Houston area, for now
948 posts, read 1,202,022 times
Reputation: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
So how long do you think they NEED to be allowed to remain here AFTER they have already had their hearings, been ordered to voluntarily depart yet are still here? No-one is denying them the right to a fair hearing - what I object to, is their refusal to COMPLY with the results of that hearing because it DOESN"T SUIT THEM.
Your asking the wrong question. The law is slow and if it moves to fast it ends up doing more harm then good. I hate that its slow to but the fact remains that it works.
The real question is what do we do to prevent illegal immigration. For me I think we should be checking the status of everyone man woman and child and it should be on a drivers license or Visa and should be on the person at all times. Hell when you can't prove you have a Drivers license when your driving the cop tells you to have a nice walk home or worse. Why in gods name are we making it so people can sneak over the border so easy then we hide them and give them jobs. That's the real question
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Old 12-06-2010, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,946,003 times
Reputation: 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
opyelie the key word in your question is "voluntarily" it shouldn't be voluntary it should be mandatory.
SOMEtimes they are given the choice of voluntarily departing or being DEPORTED. Forcible deportation earns them a longer black mark against them if they ever wish to try to come back legally, so some will opt for voluntary departure. There is a time limit (usually 60 days) in which they either voluntarily depart or are forced to.
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Old 12-06-2010, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewmik View Post
Your asking the wrong question. The law is slow and if it moves to fast it ends up doing more harm then good. I hate that its slow to but the fact remains that it works.
The real question is what do we do to prevent illegal immigration. For me I think we should be checking the status of everyone man woman and child and it should be on a drivers license or Visa and should be on the person at all times. Hell when you can't prove you have a Drivers license when your driving the cop tells you to have a nice walk home or worse. Why in gods name are we making it so people can sneak over the border so easy then we hide them and give them jobs. That's the real question
The first thing we need is "tight Border security". Without it (as we are now) we're like a raging river without a dam.
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Old 12-06-2010, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Houston area, for now
948 posts, read 1,202,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
The first thing we need is "tight Border security". Without it (as we are now) we're like a raging river without a dam.
I agree. However we also need to tell employers that if they are caught giving jobs to undoc's then the property and business will be seized and closed. Same with rental housing. If you rent to an undoc the house is posted and sold at auction to pay court cost and fines.
Make it so risky to harbor them that it's not worth the risk.
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Old 12-06-2010, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewmik View Post
I agree. However we also need to tell employers that if they are caught giving jobs to undoc's then the property and business will be seized and closed. Same with rental housing. If you rent to an undoc the house is posted and sold at auction to pay court cost and fines.
Make it so risky to harbor them that it's not worth the risk.
Agreed. But what about those who knowingly harbor illegals? Lets face it illegals normally don't cross the border and and walk into an apartment they rented on line before hand. Someone is facilitating them until they get on their feet.
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Old 12-07-2010, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Agreed. But what about those who knowingly harbor illegals? Lets face it illegals normally don't cross the border and and walk into an apartment they rented on line before hand. Someone is facilitating them until they get on their feet.
That's just it. Intent is hard to prove and easy for them to lie their way out of it.
So it should be either way. If they rent to, or hire illegals, knowingly or not,
they lose their license and business.
To avoid the risk, employers and landlords would keep records and update them accordingly.
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Old 12-07-2010, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,877 posts, read 4,022,754 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
opyelie the key word in your question is "voluntarily" it shouldn't be voluntary it should be mandatory.
You are mis-understand the meaning of the word "voluntary" in this context. If you are ordered by an Immigration Judge to "voluntarily" depart all that means is that ICE does not hold you in a detention center and put you on a JPATS flight out of the country. It means you will buy your own ticket and leave on your own. However, you are given a specified amount of time to do so.
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Old 12-07-2010, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,877 posts, read 4,022,754 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
the constitution does not say they are special. the 14th amendment "seems" to say all people legal or not, on US soil are afforded protection and equal rights. which is why an illegal or anyone can put up a legal "fight" for whatever they choose.

as to this group picking and choosing what law they abide by most people do the same thing. we pick and choose if we obey the speed limit or if we rob a bank.

it does feel like life is not fair or that some seem to take advantage of the system, it does seem like an injustice in many cases.

the flip side of the coin is individual freedom from unlawful prosecution and so much more.
Yes I can choose to rob a bank but damn I'd expect to face some consequences of my actions if I got caught. Not create myself into a persecuted minority, cry about losing my rights and whine about my "DREAM." Also, quit twisting my words. I am fine with them being able to see an Immigration Judge to fight their case. But once the Judge makings his ruling that it's. It's OVER. Go back to Mexico. You had your day in court, you lose. Willy Wonka says it best:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aJROW6cuEM
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