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Old 12-08-2010, 10:37 PM
 
3,065 posts, read 3,693,245 times
Reputation: 2695

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It's surprising to me. It is really, really surprising to me. The Democrats are sent a message last month when they got killed in the elections. And their response to those elections and to try and re-shape their image to the voters who abandoned them? To go even farther to the left.

They honestly think they lost because they weren't "left" enough. They are so completely clueless that they don't realize the reason they lost is because they went so far left that those of us that are independent could no longer support them. They really think they need to recharge their base. Their base shows up to vote for them no matter what.

Well done, Dems. Keep up at this rate and you'll lose control of the Senate and White House 2 years from now.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Alaska
6,306 posts, read 4,175,363 times
Reputation: 3719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecovlke View Post
Oh, puleeeeze elaborate. Let's see. Babies, or young children were brought to America by their parents. They grow up here; go to school here; work here; and 'here' is the ONLY home country they know.

If they were going to harm you they would have done so already.

This is about allowing those who had no say in how they got into America, and who have lived by the laws of this country, to enter into the military or attend college, and start the path to becoming a legalized American.

Oh, and don't even pull that "they're breaking the law by being here' card BS. What? Is a toddler going to march back to the country he was born in? A 10 y/o then? A teen-ager who is culturally American?
Their parents broke the law when they entered this country illegally, therefore they are illegal aliens. When they exit this country, come back the appropriate way, get their papers, take the citizenship classes and become citizens then they should be welcomed. Until they follow the same process my grandparents did they and their spawn are illegally in this country and should be exported.. Pretty simple isn't it?
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:39 PM
 
10,720 posts, read 16,836,441 times
Reputation: 9878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos View Post
It's surprising to me. It is really, really surprising to me. The Democrats are sent a message last month when they got killed in the elections. And their response to those elections and to try and re-shape their image to the voters who abandoned them? To go even farther to the left.

They honestly think they lost because they weren't "left" enough. They are so completely clueless that they don't realize the reason they lost is because they went so far left that those of us that are independent could no longer support them. They really think they need to recharge their base. Their base shows up to vote for them no matter what.

Well done, Dems. Keep up at this rate and you'll lose control of the Senate and White House 2 years from now.
That's not it. It's the sinking ship phenomenon. They know they are done so now in a last desperate attempt, they are trying to pass legislation before the news guys take over.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:40 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,581,657 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
I would support the Dream Act if it had mandatory military enlistment.

The two years of college is a huge loop hole. Any toolchest can enroll at some scummy junior college or online school like the University of Phoenix for two years. It's much harder having to enlist and serve in the U.S. military.

The Dream Act should be ammended and eliminate the college requirement and demand 4 years of military service.

It's a no-brainer. They have the choice of enlisting in the military and possibly dying overseas or enrolling in an online degree for 2 years or paying a few thousand a year to enroll in junior college and major in graphic design. What would you do? hmmm Give me a break. This is why the government shouldn't make decisions. It's not like they are demanding a 4 years college degree in electrical engineering.
Bingo!

I also love how the bill says that the will have the status of being illegal here removed if they are in the process of trying to go to school or join the military. So, they could go to the recruitment office of a military branch, try to join, but get told that they will be sent to boot camp in a year or two. They get to chill here, work, in the US under legal status until they go off to boot camp. Or some situation could come up where they fool the system into thinking that they are really going to school or have been trying to go to school but can't. I mean, yeah, that's probably gonna catch up to them later, but while they are living the legal life in the US with no fear of working because they are now legal, they will be taking that job from a resident that was legally here in the first place.

There are just way too many ways for ALREADY sneaky people (illegal immigrants) to get over and by on this system. They are experienced at lying to the government, what makes the government think that they won't do it some more?
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:40 PM
 
3,065 posts, read 3,693,245 times
Reputation: 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaluce View Post
Conservative estimates report approx. 12 million illegal immigrants are in the United States


if you ask a Native American,

....that number is more like 300 million
There's not a Native American alive who was around when it was "their" country. This argument has long since stopped having any merit.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Exeter, NH
5,200 posts, read 4,204,038 times
Reputation: 5453
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaluce View Post
The argument that we can't find and deport millions of Illegal aliens is an insult to intelligent people.....and imbeciles as well.
We don't have to find and deport them. We simply have to stop offering the bait that keeps them coming here: jobs, public assistance, free education, anchor babies, and the fact that if they stay some Democrat will eventually try and get them total amnesty and citizenship.

It is not difficult at all to get proof of legal status before offering a job, or offering public assistance. But Big Business and our government both WANT open-door immigration, illegal or not. Only the Federal Government has the constitutional authority to control immigration, and they will NEVER stop anything that gives them money. "The vast majority of illegal aliens federal income and payroll taxes..." and the process by which this happens is very well described in this cite: Illegal Aliens pay Federal income and payroll taxes because ... - Democratic Underground Unfortunately, it is the State and Local Governments that have to pay the lion's share of the cost of illegals, and they have to do so with money taken from what is left over of citizens' earnings AFTER they have paid all their federal income and Social Security and Medicare taxes.

It's funny how all the headlines read that DREAM will decrease the deficit over 10 years by $1.4 billion dollars by taxing the incomes of these new citizens. This ignores the fact that most illegals already pay taxes; they simply aren't eligible for all the welfare programs a citizen supposedly has access to. And buried in the story is the fact that "The CBO estimated the bill would increase projected deficits by between $5 billion and $20 billion between 2021 and 2061 after the first DREAM Act beneficiaries gain legal status." DREAM Act Would Reduce Deficit Over Next 10 Years, Says CBO

The ramifications of passing DREAM are numerous, including that (as usual) "The DREAM Act does not provide funding to states and counties to cover the costs it imposes." Estimating the Impact of the DREAM Act | Center for Immigration Studies Steven Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies, stated that the legislation needs to be funded at his baseline estimate of $6.2 billion each year -- a move that he says Democrats are avoiding because it would destroy support for the bill. "Right now it's an unfunded mandate that would come at the expense of not just taxpayers but kids trying to get into these schools." DREAM Act Would Cost Taxpayers $6.2 Billion Per Year, Group Says - FoxNews.com

At a time when our economy is in ruins, our labor market absolutely flooded, and far too many native-born Americans relying on taxpayer-funded programs to make ends meet, it is insane that we should be doing anything to encourage immigration. This move will not solve ANY of our problems, and will in fact make many things much worse.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:59 PM
 
23,851 posts, read 19,144,158 times
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4 year degree or nothing. Associate degrees don't count. All student loans and interest paid to a $0 balance. And a verifiable job after graduation.

Then, and only then, would I consider giving the child of an illegal immigrant citizenship. That or 8 years of military service.

Above all, i'd require that the borders be sealed and guarded by drones and the military.

All or nothing. I'll vote against any politician that sells a package short of these standards.
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:41 PM
 
10,720 posts, read 16,836,441 times
Reputation: 9878
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
4 year degree or nothing. Associate degrees don't count. All student loans and interest paid to a $0 balance. And a verifiable job after graduation.

Then, and only then, would I consider giving the child of an illegal immigrant citizenship. That or 8 years of military service.

Above all, i'd require that the borders be sealed and guarded by drones and the military.

All or nothing. I'll vote against any politician that sells a package short of these standards.
There are loopholes with a 4 year degree too. You don't know where they are going to school, what type of school it is (on-line) or what degree they are majoring in. If they do some easy degree through an on-line school, cheating could be rampant and result in a degree that fails to help the person get a job AND it will cost the taxpayers too.

The only requirement that makes sense is Military service for a minimum of 4 years. They have to complete their 4 years of service and be discharged honorably to even qualify.
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Old 12-09-2010, 01:35 AM
 
Location: Eastern Missouri
3,054 posts, read 5,028,943 times
Reputation: 1377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recovering Democrat View Post
Whether or not "we've got room" isn't the issue. We are a country of laws. It's one of the basic characteristics that makes The USA a great country.

Thousands of immigrants every year follow the legal process and apply for entry into the US and/or for citizenship. Some are chosen, some are not, but they all follow the law.

Those, like you, who would ignore the law reward the law breakers and discourage even law abiding immigrants from honoring our laws.

Shame on you. You're part of the problem.
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Old 12-09-2010, 01:36 AM
 
Location: Eastern Missouri
3,054 posts, read 5,028,943 times
Reputation: 1377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian123 View Post
I have a dream that one day all illegals and children of illegals whether they are black, brown, white, or yellow will be deported to their country of origin.
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