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How can any study have accurate anwers or conclusions when we have no clue what the actual number of illegals really is.
How do you do a cost analysis on the cost of a loved one killed by an illegal?
How do we determine the cost of someone trying to rebuild their life after ID theft?
A gov that has been less than zealous at enforcing immigration laws must also have their veracity questioned.
For example I don't trust a single thing the CBO says.
You're putting up emotional appeals that have nothing to do with anything. Bad things happen to people. However, so do good things. An illegal immigrant saved my mom. Does that mean all illegal immigrants are lifesavers? No. An illegal immigrant almost killed my dad. Does that mean all illegal immigrants are reckless drivers? No. Why put the sentence "how do you do a cost analysis on the cost of a loved one killed by an illegal". It's a blatant strawman.
Secondly, why not trust the CBO? Why not trust the institutions we put in place that have done a good job so far in other areas of public policy? It's really interesting that illegal immigration is one of the few aspects of public policy that facts and figures are met with sentences like "how do we determine the cost of someone trying to rebuild their life after ID theft"
Personally, it seems disrespectful to those that have died by illegal immigrants as well as to those illegal immigrants who simply live their lives. Advancing your point using those examples, to me, seems a little tasteless.
Really, that's what Harvard, USC, and Berkeley concluded? Didn't know that...
Obviously there are benefits to Americans as well.
But do the benefits outweigh the costs? That's the million dollar question, isn't it? Somehow something with the word "illegal" attached to it doesn't conger up a net positive in my mind.
Still no link to back up your assertions that unemployment rates are higher for illegals than citizens? I've read all the mixed bag stats on the pro's and con's of illegal immigration. I have seen firsthand personally that the negative impacts outweigh the postives in just my own state and community. Doesn't matter anyway as the bottom line is that they are here illegally and that is all the argument one needs to make.
No, they won't take my job as I am retired but I do know many Americans both young and middle aged that have had their job situation negatively impacted by cheap, illegal labor.
I like peer reviewed materials. Typically it's better. Everyone spews links. Not everyone takes the time to read a thesis or attend seminars. I used to hang out with a few postdocs.
We can even logically arrive there. Illegal immigrants are concentrated in the SW (with the nations highest unemployment rates). They are in industries that have seen severe loss (construction and lower level service sectors). They are mostly Hispanic (which have a higher unemployment rate than the average). They are less likely to have a college degree (thus making them even more likely to be unemployed). They are more likely to be unemployed than the average American.
Your argument of illegal is illegal means we shouldn't allow gay marriage. Because illegal is illegal and that is all the argument one needs to make.
Look all I'm saying is that it would be nice to less knee jerk reactions from both sides.
I'm tired of whining from La Voz and from the Tea Party members.
But do the benefits outweigh the costs? That's the million dollar question, isn't it? Somehow something with the word "illegal" attached to it doesn't conger up a net positive in my mind.
That is the question. You're right. However, simply because something is illegal doesn't really mean that you've answered the question.
Prohibition laws, DADT, gay marriage bans, are all bad policies that had something legal and illegal attached. I guess what I'm saying is that the word illegal doesn't in of itself denote positives or negatives.
That is the question. You're right. However, simply because something is illegal doesn't really mean that you've answered the question.
Prohibition laws, DADT, gay marriage bans, are all bad policies that had something legal and illegal attached. I guess what I'm saying is that the word illegal doesn't in of itself denote positives or negatives.
You are comparing apples to oranges here. We have a legal way of coming here so there is no prohibition on it other than making sure we can sustain a certain number of immigrants and that they come here legally.
Another point is that yes some laws may need changing but one doesn't break them beforehand just because they haven't been changed to suit them yet.
You are comparing apples to oranges here. We have a legal way of coming here so there is no prohibition on it other than making sure we can sustain a certain number of immigrants and that they come here legally.
Another point is that yes some laws may need changing but one doesn't break them beforehand just because they haven't been changed to suit them yet.
No I'm not. I'm trying to demonstrate the flaw of thought process, which is the same thought process for those policies. Illegal=bad, x=illegal...therefore x=bad. That's the essential thought process. There is a flaw there. X may or may not be as bad, therefore should people frame this debate in such terms?
No I'm not. I'm trying to demonstrate the flaw of thought process, which is the same thought process for those policies. Illegal=bad, x=illegal...therefore x=bad. That's the essential thought process. There is a flaw there. X may or may not be as bad, therefore should people frame this debate in such terms?
Our laws have determined what is illegal aka bad. Go cry to our government then and stop demonizing law abiding Americans for adhering to our laws in their present form.
Really, that's what Harvard, USC, and Berkeley concluded? Didn't know that...
Obviously there are benefits to Americans as well.
If they're so obvious why don't you explain them to us. I'm talking about net benefits, not just individual benefits without taking into account the backside costs that many pro-illegal people tend to overlook.
If Jose' picks strawberries for $3.50 an hour instead of minimum wage and that means my strawberries are $1lb instead of $2lb like they would be if legal citizens picked them that could be seen as a benefit but in reality you have to consider that I'm also paying taxes which cover the cost of Jose's 6 children in school, their free lunch program, their ESL classes, their before and after school programs, the family WIC card, the increase to my uninsured motorist coverage because Jose' doesn't have car insurance and while the US gov. isn't aware of that Geico somehow is, the cost of ID theft that we all cover do to Jose' stealing my neighbor's SS#, etc etc etc. Let's not even talk about when Jose' gets drunk and kills someone on the way home from his "job" picking berries.
Now sure, not every illegal is taking advantage of the system like Jose' is but most are and very few are paying any income taxes even though the pro-illegal crowd claims they are. These people aren't stupid, they know the game and they know how to claim 99 dependents on that stolen SS#.
Now I love strawberries but I don't eat enough to come anywhere near close enough to make Jose' being here a benefit to me and if I knew that paying an extra $1lb would eliminate the "need" for Jose' to be here I'd do it freely in a heartbeat.
I guess what I'm saying is that the word illegal doesn't in of itself denote positives or negatives.
To most liberals you're right, that's the whole problem.
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