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Old 07-20-2007, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 90,191 times
Reputation: 24

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Quote:
Originally Posted by faith10 View Post
I think illegals ARE immoral. They know they are doing wrong breaking America's laws, that's why they sneak over here. Something that's wrong is immoral, them being Catholics makes them all the more immoral. The Mexican and So. American poor that did not choose to break laws made the right moral decision.
Faith, are you immaculate? Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Last edited by MexicanGuy; 07-20-2007 at 03:10 AM..

 
Old 07-20-2007, 09:52 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,703,406 times
Reputation: 3010
I think that the problem people have with illegal immigrants is simply the whole illegal thing. That's kind of hard for many folks to get past.

But, that being said, I agree with the OP. If corporate America did not facilitate illegal immigration by ensuring that the jobs these people are looking to fill were readily available, then the impetus to come to the U.S. illegally would be gone.

I can never condone lawbreaking. I'm one of those non-scofflaws who even follows the speed limit signs. But I cannot wholly blame those who come to this country in search of work (the reconquista crowd is a different story). It is quite likely that they are merely trying to support themselves and their families by any means possible. I seriously doubt that they are looking at this entire situation as a means to ensure the destruction of middle class America, but rather as a means of survival.

Chop off the head and the snake dies--plain and simple. Big business and those corporations which are screaming for slave labor, are at the root of the illegal immigration problem and they are the ones which must be made to feel the frustration of the average American citizen.

However, I don't think that the average American has the bullocks to do what is necessary to bring big business up by the short hairs. We b*tch and moan about illegal immigration and then continue to purchase and use products and services offered by these corporations which support open borders. By we, I mean Americans in general. I have closed my B of A account, changed my insurance because State Farm is a big La Raza supporter and refuse to go to the local McDonalds because they allow day laborers to use their parking lot as a makeshift day labor center. But I'm sure that none of the above businesses are particularly suffering because I refuse to use their services. But to me, it is an issue of principles.

Boycotts are the only effective tool the American public can use other than demanding that laws be enforced and employers be punished. But in order for a boycott to be effective, people actually have to move out of their comfort zones and participate.

It's similar to that old saying, "Don't shoot the messenger." You cannot hold illegal aliens wholly responsible for breaking the law to come here to work when employers continue to dangle the possibility of jobs in front of them.

Last edited by Kele; 07-20-2007 at 10:26 AM..
 
Old 07-20-2007, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,720,342 times
Reputation: 2096
I think it is more they KEEP breaking the laws, with no regards.
 
Old 07-20-2007, 01:51 PM
Air
 
150 posts, read 488,560 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
It's similar to that old saying, "Don't shoot the messenger." You cannot hold illegal aliens wholly responsible for breaking the law to come here to work when employers continue to dangle the possibility of jobs in front of them.
Great post, thank you. The employers are illegally hiring people below minimum wages and illegally working them in unsafe conditions.

Builders say they couldn't construct the houses people want at the prices they want without illegal labor. Manufacturers say they can't make the clothes people want at the prices they want without child labor. What fallacious arguments! We had clothes and houses before. I think these companies are looking for big profits by flouting the labor laws.

I'm sure those big companies like to keep the focus on illegal aliens, and off themselves!
 
Old 07-20-2007, 04:36 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,640,529 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
It's similar to that old saying, "Don't shoot the messenger." You cannot hold illegal aliens wholly responsible for breaking the law to come here to work when employers continue to dangle the possibility of jobs in front of them.
I agree. As I said in another post, we can't honestly expect the illegals to worry more about the deterioration of our society than we ourselves do. To their eyes, "we" are a free society, and if "we" are letting them in, then "we" must not have a serious problem with it. As far as they are concrned, SOMEBODY up here wants them, and that's invitation enough for a hungry person looking for work.
 
Old 07-20-2007, 04:42 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,720,122 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson View Post
....my point being that when it concerns desparate people who are hungry and want to work in order to feed their families and improve thier lives - "it's illegal to cross the border and therefore they are criminals" doesnt cut it.
What job is a pregnant woman who is close to term looking for when she deliberately crosses the border in order to deliver in a US hospital so her child will be a citizen? What employment is she seeking? Is feeding her family and improving their lives what motivates her?
 
Old 07-20-2007, 06:21 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 1,877,866 times
Reputation: 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by MexicanGuy View Post
Faith, are you immaculate? Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Judging? Criminal activity and morals most often go together. Some Illegals do not know it to be immoral, many do, sneaking across borders says alot. All have sinned, but we are only talking about illegals act and crime here. Heads of government who encourage crime of illegal immigration are perhaps even more criminal and immoral it is said. One cannot say do not discern right from wrong and then do not act on it, the Bible says to judge when we ourselves are not doing the same wrong so that we can see it clearly and understand it to confront the person on it. If illegals were starving refugees the moral issue would be more on their side, but they are coming to get out of poverty not starvation.

Last edited by faith10; 07-20-2007 at 06:38 PM..
 
Old 07-20-2007, 07:32 PM
 
1,949 posts, read 4,650,503 times
Reputation: 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
What job is a pregnant woman who is close to term looking for when she deliberately crosses the border in order to deliver in a US hospital so her child will be a citizen? What employment is she seeking? Is feeding her family and improving their lives what motivates her?
well, as a matter of fact, yes - feeding her family and improving thier lives is the motivation. what else would it be? wantan lawlessness? it is done to gain access to America's public benifits by way of a United States Citizen child. i dont think that citizenship should be granted in this matter. we need to change the laws that ecourage this kind of behavior, and start strictly enforcing the ones that discourage it. and most all we need to start actively giving a damn about our culture and take our country back from the elite politicians and the special interests.

you people are putting me in the position of having to defend illegal immigrants. and i am against illegal immigration! but for those of you who argue that it is immoral to break immigration laws for the reasons that illegal aliens do - you are living in a warped reallity and i cannot carry on this discussion any further. it is the height of hypocracy for you to even think that you wouldn't do the same thing if you were in their position.

as i said before, the beauty of a message board is that you can be completely honest. so now it is my turn to be honest. i'm sure you are not going to like this, but here it is: to those of you who argue that the biggest problem with illegal immigrants is the manor in which they came here, and not their impact on our society - it seems that racism is a likely ulterior motive, and here's why: you seem to feel a need to justify your position by painting the illegals as bad people. and when you say "they broke the law and that makes them criminals", it seems as though you are unaware of their impact once they do come here and live among us. the position of being against illegal immigration is actually alot easier to defend on the grounds of the social and economic impact of America accepting the duty of tending to Mexico's excess population rather than trying to convince intelligent people that all illegal immigrants are bad people who mean to do us harm. it just sounds like wacky political jargan, just like the pro-illegal immigrant people use, rather than something that reflects the reallity that the majority of us live in.
 
Old 07-20-2007, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Occupied Territory
354 posts, read 226,340 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
I have to disagree with you. Illegal aliens who come here violate our border laws. They steal a job that an American wants and needs, they drive without a license and insurance and they frequently evade taxes by declaring a huge number of dependents. In short, they do things that an American would be thrown in jail for doing. And these are the nice ones.

The not so nice ones also murder, rape, burglar homes, steal cars and deal/transport drugs. Our prisons and jails are full of illegal aliens. Nationwide they average around 28% of our total prison and jail population.

I understand that a Mexican would want to come up here and criminally earn a wage due to the poverty south of the border. They simply want to improve their standard of living along with their families. But that doesn't make it any less illegal or any less criminal.

But I do agree with the OP in the sense that there is enough blame to go around. Our politicians in Washington knowingly have refused to enforce our laws and that has enabled these illegal aliens to not only violate our laws but in many ways encouraged them to do so. But that doesn't make it right. And for the record, I used to be a corrections officer. I'm for enforcing our laws across the board. An American who breaks our laws is just as much of a criminal, even if he is only doing it to improve his financial situation, and he should go to jail as well.
I just wanted to say that I so totally agree with you. I have been living near the border for a decade now and we are working at moving and getting away from the rampan t crime and reverse descrimination and total lack of laws being foloowed. In the county we are in, it is a known joke that most people think of it as Mexico, but with the U.S. amenities. I love the weather and lots of the people, the legal ones and the Hispanic citizens but the criminals do a lot of damage to the state, the environment and to the people of the state because of the all of the taxpayers having to pay for their healthcare and their education of their children.
 
Old 07-20-2007, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Occupied Territory
354 posts, read 226,340 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
What job is a pregnant woman who is close to term looking for when she deliberately crosses the border in order to deliver in a US hospital so her child will be a citizen? What employment is she seeking? Is feeding her family and improving their lives what motivates her?
Point well taken. After all, that is exactly what Richardson's mother did and that is why he is a U.S. citizen. He was raised in Mexico by his mother in Mexico City and carries a dual citizenship. Be careful if you plan on voting for him because he wants complete amnesty (no matter what he says) and wants open borders. I know this because I live in NM and even know him personally, not well true but I have had many conversations with him.
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