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Old 07-20-2007, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 89,763 times
Reputation: 24

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air View Post
I'm sure those big companies like to keep the focus on illegal aliens, and off themselves!
Very good point. I like the direction this thread is taking; it's good to see there are still lots of people who think rationally.

 
Old 07-21-2007, 12:03 AM
 
2,432 posts, read 6,006,346 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by MexicanGuy View Post
Very good point. I like the direction this thread is taking; it's good to see there are still lots of people who think rationally.
The big companies are just the "token" targets the Bush Administration has been going after on rare occasion. Most of the illegals in this country are employed by small businesses.
 
Old 07-21-2007, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 89,763 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by faith10 View Post
Judging? Criminal activity and morals most often go together. Some Illegals do not know it to be immoral, many do, sneaking across borders says alot. All have sinned, but we are only talking about illegals act and crime here. Heads of government who encourage crime of illegal immigration are perhaps even more criminal and immoral it is said. One cannot say do not discern right from wrong and then do not act on it, the Bible says to judge when we ourselves are not doing the same wrong so that we can see it clearly and understand it to confront the person on it. If illegals were starving refugees the moral issue would be more on their side, but they are coming to get out of poverty not starvation.
Why do you insist on applying the term “criminal” instead of “illegal”, “unlawful” or “lawbreaker”? Is it because you seek to add wood to the fire?

Here’s another one from Jesus: “Whichever one of you has committed no sin may throw the first stone.”
 
Old 07-21-2007, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 89,763 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
The big companies are just the "token" targets the Bush Administration has been going after on rare occasion. Most of the illegals in this country are employed by small businesses.
I don't see a big difference...
 
Old 07-21-2007, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,070,186 times
Reputation: 11273
Illegal immigration is the new bogey man. It's all politics. Did you complain in the late 1970s when we brought over 100,000 Vietnamese to California? Or did you complain when we upped the number of European immigrants permitted in? Who did we steal the land from a century ago, the Mexicans and Native Americans.

What do they take from you?

The comment that European immigrants learned to speak English quickly is also untrue. I had friends and family growing up who spoke their own language and pidgin English for all of their lives.

We give a lot more money to Corporate Welfare (read Halliburton, Brown & Root, et.al.) than we do to services provided to others. We don't take care of the poor born in America. We need socialized health care and a government that cares for its citizenry.
 
Old 07-21-2007, 07:32 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,712,772 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by MexicanGuy View Post
Why do you insist on applying the term “criminal” instead of “illegal”, “unlawful” or “lawbreaker”? Is it because you seek to add wood to the fire?

Here’s another one from Jesus: “Whichever one of you has committed no sin may throw the first stone.”
I don't see a big difference.

Last edited by andreabeth; 07-21-2007 at 08:14 AM..
 
Old 07-21-2007, 08:13 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,712,772 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson View Post
well, as a matter of fact, yes - feeding her family and improving thier lives is the motivation. what else would it be? wantan lawlessness? it is done to gain access to America's public benifits by way of a United States Citizen child. i dont think that citizenship should be granted in this matter. we need to change the laws that ecourage this kind of behavior, and start strictly enforcing the ones that discourage it. and most all we need to start actively giving a damn about our culture and take our country back from the elite politicians and the special interests.

you people are putting me in the position of having to defend illegal immigrants. and i am against illegal immigration! but for those of you who argue that it is immoral to break immigration laws for the reasons that illegal aliens do - you are living in a warped reallity and i cannot carry on this discussion any further. it is the height of hypocracy for you to even think that you wouldn't do the same thing if you were in their position.

as i said before, the beauty of a message board is that you can be completely honest. so now it is my turn to be honest. i'm sure you are not going to like this, but here it is: to those of you who argue that the biggest problem with illegal immigrants is the manor in which they came here, and not their impact on our society - it seems that racism is a likely ulterior motive, and here's why: you seem to feel a need to justify your position by painting the illegals as bad people. and when you say "they broke the law and that makes them criminals", it seems as though you are unaware of their impact once they do come here and live among us. the position of being against illegal immigration is actually alot easier to defend on the grounds of the social and economic impact of America accepting the duty of tending to Mexico's excess population rather than trying to convince intelligent people that all illegal immigrants are bad people who mean to do us harm. it just sounds like wacky political jargan, just like the pro-illegal immigrant people use, rather than something that reflects the reallity that the majority of us live in.
The pregnant illegal alien who deliberately has her baby on US soil is gaming the system. Where does she think these benefits she and the rest of ther family are now entitled to come from? The anchor baby scam benefits her, but it is at the expense of everyone else. And what exactly does she bring to the bargain? Another citizen? We've already got 300 million, we don't need more. Plus now we are responsible for the education, health care, etc. for her other foreign born children. And you know something? This bothers the illegal parent(s) not one iota.

There have been many discussions concerning the negative impacts illegal immigration has on society since this forum was first opened. The subjects discussed have included:

1. The strain that is placed on the health care system when millions of illegals use the ER as a primary care facility and DO NO PAY THEIR BILLS. Frankly, I find it very troubling that illegals simply walk away from sizeable medical bills, such as those incurred for the delivery of an anchor baby, while at the same time sending 'their' money back to Mexico. This does not occur in a vacuum and the hapless US taxpayer is left to cover the expenses. Can you say 'immoral'?

2. The crime of rampant identity theft perpetrated by illegal aliens and the tremendous costs to citizens whose ID's are stolen. People spend years and thousands of dollars trying to straighten this mess out. By entering a country illegally and then buying a stolen/forged ID, the illegal has commited two crimes right off the bat.

3. Next, driving without a license or insurance violates US law. When involved in a accident these drivers typically flee the scene, leaving the insured motorist holding the bag. This behavior results in increased costs of car insurance for all of us.

4. Having multiple families, friends, etc. live in a single family home or apartment violates local law, results in multiple vehicles parked in an area intended for one or two cars, often leads to excessive noise levels, and can pose health hazards to others.

5. The injury and loss of life due to illegal aliens driving while drunk or under the influence of drugs is totally unacceptable and NONE of it should have happened. I don't care if driving drunk is acceptable in Mexico. It isn't here. Neither is having sex with underage girls. Our age of consent is 18, not 12.

Etc., etc., etc. In all honesty, I see alot of 'harm' and very little 'good' coming out of all of this. If you had bothered to read the forum you would have seen this. However, there are people who are motivated by a simple need to call others racist. This is a good place for them to do so because it seems anyone opposed to illegal immigration is labeled a de facto racist and after a certain amount of time you get used to it.
 
Old 07-21-2007, 09:59 AM
 
1,949 posts, read 4,642,176 times
Reputation: 907
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
The pregnant illegal alien who deliberately has her baby on US soil is gaming the system. Where does she think these benefits she and the rest of ther family are now entitled to come from? The anchor baby scam benefits her, but it is at the expense of everyone else. And what exactly does she bring to the bargain? Another citizen? We've already got 300 million, we don't need more. Plus now we are responsible for the education, health care, etc. for her other foreign born children. And you know something? This bothers the illegal parent(s) not one iota.
i'm sorry...while reading my post, did you not catch on to the fact that i also am opposed to the "anchor baby" syndrome? i just do not consider this a vicious or immoral act. our society allows it. we as a society need to change - not expect the illegal alien to change.

Quote:
There have been many discussions concerning the negative impacts illegal immigration has on society since this forum was first opened. The subjects discussed have included:

1. The strain that is placed on the health care system when millions of illegals use the ER as a primary care facility and DO NO PAY THEIR BILLS. Frankly, I find it very troubling that illegals simply walk away from sizeable medical bills, such as those incurred for the delivery of an anchor baby, while at the same time sending 'their' money back to Mexico. This does not occur in a vacuum and the hapless US taxpayer is left to cover the expenses. Can you say 'immoral'?
can you say survival? for the hundredth time, i am against this too. the difference is that i dont need to demonize these millions of illegals in order to feel this way.

Quote:
2. The crime of rampant identity theft perpetrated by illegal aliens and the tremendous costs to citizens whose ID's are stolen. People spend years and thousands of dollars trying to straighten this mess out. By entering a country illegally and then buying a stolen/forged ID, the illegal has commited two crimes right off the bat.

3. Next, driving without a license or insurance violates US law. When involved in a accident these drivers typically flee the scene, leaving the insured motorist holding the bag. This behavior results in increased costs of car insurance for all of us.

4. Having multiple families, friends, etc. live in a single family home or apartment violates local law, results in multiple vehicles parked in an area intended for one or two cars, often leads to excessive noise levels, and can pose health hazards to others.

5. The injury and loss of life due to illegal aliens driving while drunk or under the influence of drugs is totally unacceptable and NONE of it should have happened. I don't care if driving drunk is acceptable in Mexico. It isn't here. Neither is having sex with underage girls. Our age of consent is 18, not 12.
these are good points, and these things do happen, but not all of them can be attributed to the vast majority of illegal aliens. again, condemn our broke system and our guilt-driven complacency, not the masses of people who take advantage of it.

Quote:
Etc., etc., etc. In all honesty, I see alot of 'harm' and very little 'good' coming out of all of this.
thank you for making my point. that's what i've been trying to say this whole time - we have to make peole aware of the harm that comes from all of this - and not try to demonize the people. also, do you have it in your mind somehow that i have been trumpeting the 'good' of illegal immigration.

Quote:
If you had bothered to read the forum you would have seen this
lady, please dont try to act like i didnt read the forum because you sound ridiculous if you do. also, i am sure that i know alot more about illegal immigrants and illegal immigration than you do. i am also quite sure that i do more to defend against it than you ever will. so if you think that i'm on here trying to champion the cause of illegal immigrants - you may wanna get that out of your mind.

Quote:
However, there are people who are motivated by a simple need to call others racist. This is a good place for them to do so because it seems anyone opposed to illegal immigration is labeled a de facto racist and after a certain amount of time you get used to it.
do you think i want to call anybody a racist?

do you think that i am not opposed to illegal immigration?

..........
 
Old 07-21-2007, 11:05 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,712,772 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson View Post
i'm sorry...while reading my post, did you not catch on to the fact that i also am opposed to the "anchor baby" syndrome? i just do not consider this a vicious or immoral act. our society allows it. we as a society need to change - not expect the illegal alien to change.
Why not? Why should illegal aliens not be expected to change their behavior? Surely they have some sense of right and wrong. If I happen to walk by a store where the front window has been smashed, I would not walk in and begin helping myself to the goodies. If US citizens are required to pay for delivery costs (or at least make an attempt to), why should the illegals walk out the door scot-free? Que suerta! I find this attitude of entitlement, this mindset that somehow anything in the US is free for the taking to be troubling above and beyond all else. And IMO, the majority seem to feel no gratitude or appreciation of the benefits they reap by living illegally in the US. They merely want more.
To me, you seem to be saying that you are opposed to illegal immigration, but you excuse the illegal from any wongdoing? They should be held responsible for their behavior just like everybody else.
 
Old 07-21-2007, 11:28 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,712,772 times
Reputation: 1285
Many years ago there was a comedian named Flip Wilson who had a TV show. He played a character named 'Geraldine', who whenever confronted with evidence that she had done something wrong would shout, "The Devil made me do it!". Meaning that she should not be held responsible for her misdeed.
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