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Old 07-15-2007, 03:15 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
634 posts, read 2,555,277 times
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People need to stop complaining about illegal aliens, and instead direct their energies to the upper-class gated community elitists who support the supplantation of America's middle and working classes. As soon as the people who live in mansions behind iron gates feel their livelihood may change for the worse, the problems with immigration will end. Until then, worrying about border fences, people loitering in front of Home Depot, etc. does nothing to correct the root of the problem, and that is what we need to focus on.

 
Old 07-15-2007, 03:19 PM
 
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Default Good Observation

Quote:
Originally Posted by James T View Post
People need to stop complaining about illegal aliens, and instead direct their energies to the upper-class gated community elitists who support the supplantation of America's middle and working classes. As soon as the people who live in mansions behind iron gates feel their livelihood may change for the worse, the problems with immigration will end. Until then, worrying about border fences, people loitering in front of Home Depot, etc. does nothing to correct the root of the problem, and that is what we need to focus on.
Your point is an excellent one. I've been acutely aware of this for many years, and the individual illegal immigrant is really hard to dislike. He is only the visible pawn in a huge global upheaval, and, as you allude to, our own US culture is rapidly disintegating before our eyes. Saying "everything was great til them MEXICANS showed up" is the height of myopia. It might be far more honest to say "Yessir, everything was great 'til them MEXICANS showed up- and our corporations began buying the integrity of our legislators (who were happy to make the sale)- AND our divorce rate went through the roof- AND our rich people moved into gated communities-- AND we began to tolerate open corruption and outright dishonesty in our public figures until it became almost "cool"-- AND we lost the ability to insist that OUR KIDS mow the lawn, or wash the car, or get a summer job picking fruit--AND we became gradually oblivious to a public culture of sleaze, vulgarity, and coarse, mean-spirited discourse that would have shocked us just a few years before--AND we let the "kids" take over the high school---AND we made cultural icons out of a lot of self-centered, foul-mouthed, despicable clods with a vocabulary of 12 words,-- AND we let the ACLU terrify us into near-silence--Yes Sir-EEE, before all THEM THINGS happened, why, every thing was just A-OK"..
The point here is, the illegals are taking the rap for a whole lot of things they didn't cause. Our culture is in free-fall. It may be too late to reverse this--I don't know. But, if every illegal disappeared tomorrow, we'd STILL be in sorry shape.
 
Old 07-15-2007, 05:24 PM
 
2,432 posts, read 6,003,319 times
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I understand the message you are trying to get across, but it's hard to ignore so many millions and milliions of criminals.
 
Old 07-15-2007, 05:32 PM
 
7 posts, read 23,568 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James T View Post
People need to stop complaining about illegal aliens, and instead direct their energies to the upper-class gated community elitists who support the supplantation of America's middle and working classes. As soon as the people who live in mansions behind iron gates feel their livelihood may change for the worse, the problems with immigration will end. Until then, worrying about border fences, people loitering in front of Home Depot, etc. does nothing to correct the root of the problem, and that is what we need to focus on.
Finally! someone with constructive input! You do not kill a tree by cutting off it's branches. You kill a Tree by cutting out it's roots!
 
Old 07-15-2007, 05:36 PM
 
8,376 posts, read 27,204,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James T View Post
People need to stop complaining about illegal aliens, and instead direct their energies to the upper-class gated community elitists who support the supplantation of America's middle and working classes. As soon as the people who live in mansions behind iron gates feel their livelihood may change for the worse, the problems with immigration will end. Until then, worrying about border fences, people loitering in front of Home Depot, etc. does nothing to correct the root of the problem, and that is what we need to focus on.
Wow, a really intelligent post. Great point. The people employing them really don't really care about the protests, and neither does our government, which despite what some people on here might tell you, supports the guys behind the gates, because they live behind the gates themselves. Thats what happens when you have a plutocracy.
 
Old 07-15-2007, 06:32 PM
 
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Default Frustration

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
I understand the message you are trying to get across, but it's hard to ignore so many millions and milliions of criminals.
Hawkeye, you frusration is shared by all of us. I'm about as fed up as I can be. My only point was that, having known a number of illegals, the vast majority of them are not "activists", they're desperate people driven to leave home. Most don't give "two hoots" about politics. They want to WORK...ANYWHERE!! Many folks on this forum have suggested they "go home and clean up their country"-- sounds good, but how? I'm VERY upset at some of the people running MY country, but, short of ending up in prison, I see very little chance of "cleaning up" my own government--and we're a hell of a lot freer up here than the Mexicans are at home.
I'm not at all happy with the way my country is moving. I think 75% of the blame is on us, our system, and our rotten modern greed-ocracy. Those who express their frustration at the illegals are, in essence, asking them to "care" more about our country than we do ourselves. In their eyes, we are a "free" people, and whether we admit it or not, they see us as "allowing" them to come here. We can hardly ask them to lose much sleep over the destruction of "our" country, when they perceive it as being encouraged by us.
It's a maddening, frustrating mess, I know. But if WE AMERICANS can't even get our OWN LEADERS to tackle the problem, (or to even honestly DISCUSS it, without a smokescreen of lies and double-talk), how can we expect the illegals to do so?
 
Old 07-15-2007, 06:50 PM
 
1,949 posts, read 4,639,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
I understand the message you are trying to get across, but it's hard to ignore so many millions and milliions of criminals.
now, i agree with macmeal 100%. i also agree with JamesT 100%. and i am anti-illegal immigration. but IMHO, when you classify illegal aliens as criminals, you go too far. it actually sounds like an agenda driven statement, meant to strike fear. beleive me, i understand that when they crossed the border without inspection they broke the law. but hey, i like the occassional BJ, which is sodomy. so that makes me a criminal.

my point is this: you cannot blame the illegal alien for comming here in the first place. you can resent them for not embracing our culture with open arms and having a desire to become an American, foresaking Mexico or wherever. i know i certainly do. but you cant blame them for coming here in the first place. we would do the same, i'm sure. so yes, i feel that illegal aliens should be removed from this country - not as punishment for the crime of crossing our border to feed their family, but simply as a means of protecting and preserving our culture and the well-being of our citizens (most specifically: the preservation of the middle class majority - exactly what the third world countries they come here from lack.
 
Old 07-15-2007, 06:57 PM
 
1,210 posts, read 1,035,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
I understand the message you are trying to get across, but it's hard to ignore so many millions and milliions of criminals.
Yes it is.
 
Old 07-15-2007, 09:32 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson View Post
now, i agree with macmeal 100%. i also agree with JamesT 100%. and i am anti-illegal immigration. but IMHO, when you classify illegal aliens as criminals, you go too far. it actually sounds like an agenda driven statement, meant to strike fear. beleive me, i understand that when they crossed the border without inspection they broke the law. but hey, i like the occassional BJ, which is sodomy. so that makes me a criminal.

my point is this: you cannot blame the illegal alien for comming here in the first place. you can resent them for not embracing our culture with open arms and having a desire to become an American, foresaking Mexico or wherever. i know i certainly do. but you cant blame them for coming here in the first place. we would do the same, i'm sure. so yes, i feel that illegal aliens should be removed from this country - not as punishment for the crime of crossing our border to feed their family, but simply as a means of protecting and preserving our culture and the well-being of our citizens (most specifically: the preservation of the middle class majority - exactly what the third world countries they come here from lack.
I made this exact point on an earlier post. A large "middle class" is what makes a happy, optimistic, forward-looking country. Our middle class was very large- roughly 85% of all Americans after World WarII. The Middle Class is now shrinking, and as it does so, we veer closer and closer to a "third world" society, where the poor resent the "selfish" rich and the rich fear the "angry" poor. As you said, that's how it is in Latin America, and if these trends continue, that's how it'll be here in coming decades.
 
Old 07-15-2007, 09:54 PM
 
2,432 posts, read 6,003,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson View Post
now, i agree with macmeal 100%. i also agree with JamesT 100%. and i am anti-illegal immigration. but IMHO, when you classify illegal aliens as criminals, you go too far.
I have to disagree with you. Illegal aliens who come here violate our border laws. They steal a job that an American wants and needs, they drive without a license and insurance and they frequently evade taxes by declaring a huge number of dependents. In short, they do things that an American would be thrown in jail for doing. And these are the nice ones.

The not so nice ones also murder, rape, burglar homes, steal cars and deal/transport drugs. Our prisons and jails are full of illegal aliens. Nationwide they average around 28% of our total prison and jail population.

I understand that a Mexican would want to come up here and criminally earn a wage due to the poverty south of the border. They simply want to improve their standard of living along with their families. But that doesn't make it any less illegal or any less criminal.

But I do agree with the OP in the sense that there is enough blame to go around. Our politicians in Washington knowingly have refused to enforce our laws and that has enabled these illegal aliens to not only violate our laws but in many ways encouraged them to do so. But that doesn't make it right. And for the record, I used to be a corrections officer. I'm for enforcing our laws across the board. An American who breaks our laws is just as much of a criminal, even if he is only doing it to improve his financial situation, and he should go to jail as well.
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