Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
1. So does this mean you'd be ok with a Mexican doctor jumping the border and trying to set up practice cause he provides a needed skill?
That is not what I am saying, you totally missed the point. I am saying, those who are Mexican illegal aliens are permitted to come without skills to benefit the populace, while I am not permitted this liberty in Mexico (without meeting their requirements). For example, if I want to move to Canada, I have to meet a point-system requirements which weighs heavily on educational/career level and language skills.
2. That's your perogative as to why you chosed to learn spanish. You saw it as a benefit to you and pursued it. Good for you. We live in America were most people speak only english and wish to only speak english, so you're out of the norm. Second, those spanish speakers aren't demanding for you to learn spanish inorder to serve them.
I already stated my reasons for learning Spanish. Also, how can two people communicate if they do not share a common language?
3. Send them to private school if you're so worried. Do an in district transfer to a better school. It's not wrong to want a better education for your kids, but it is dumb to assume your kids would be learning at a slower pace due to the other kids around them. After middle school, most of the smart kids go on to honor classes anyways and don't even take classes with most of the other class. Would you be feeling the same way if it were a school full of asian kids that didn't speak the best english but the school was exemplary in every other regard?
Yes, I would feel the same way regardless of race. I was speaking of my experiences and opinions about those illegal aliens who happen to speak spanish and MAY BE citizens of Mexico. You (and others like you) are the ones who assume that I feel this way about only one race. I should not have to send my kids to private school to avoid the children of people who are not authorized to be here, thanks. Public school is one of those benefits of being a citizen. Why should someone drive me out?
4. WTH? How do you know they use your SS#?
It is apparent that you did not read all of the posts in this thread. I am not going to repeat the numerous posts explaining this for the benefit of someone who chose not to read.
5. Why do you care so much about how someone else lives their lives? Yes, it pisses me off too that some people don't know how to prioritize their money and spend on crap when they can't afford it, but I don't go around wishing that these people had a harder life or should be randomly deported.
If someone chooses to burglarize houses, should I not care because it's not my house?
I don't consider myself pro/anti - illegal immigration cause at the end of the day there are two sides to the coin and there's a human factor to all of it. Most importantly, with all the issues going around, I just don't understand why some Americans harp so much on this one particular issue.
Pray tell, which issues are we allowed to "harp" on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut
You've got to be kidding with your last remark. We harp on it because blue collar wages have dropped due to cheap, illegal labor. They have taken jobs from Americans, sucking our tax dollars dry for their social needs, the added uncontrolled population growth, the dilution of our culture and language, the added crime, our crowded schools, jails and hospitals, paying for the birthing or their numerious babies and the ensuing welfare they are entitled to then. Not to mention that they are here illegally and violated our immigration laws and soveirgn borders. Is that enough reason to harp on it? We don't just harp anyway, we are doing as much as we can to put an end to this travesty.
Thank you. Please understand that I am not so dense as to believe if we deported all of them tomorrow, we would see lower taxes as a result. Our government is too big, bloated, and greedy for that (a separate issue). But the money could go to better use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnigmaOnIce
I am sure if Mexico got a flood of illegal immigrants - the USA and Mexico would be in similar situations. But Mexico actually enforces their laws.
If Mexico actually enforces their laws, we would not be in similar situations.
Most of the illegals I know work in low wage blue collar jobs, so this comparasion really isn't fair.
I didn't make a comparison. I asked a question.
I can't help what YOU choose to do. The United States does not have an official language because of this learning a foreign language in high school is a requirement for graduation.
I didn't ask you to help what I choose to do, I asked a question.
Go private them or move to one of those majority white states, even those states are getting flooded with hispanics.
For the last time, I am not white. Additionally, I love how some people seem to think that there is no spectrum of US citizens, only white or hispanic. By the way, your remark is offensive; YOU correlated illegal aliens (the topic at hand) with hispanics.
4. Someone in Phoenix used my SS# to work. I did not plan for this additional income in my withholding this year and now I will owe taxes. This happens to more people than me, I am sure. Is this okay?
Sounds like someone is jealous, lol.
Jealous of fraudulent activity? Hardly. But I am glad that this is something for you to "lol" about.
I think some of your feelings towards Mexican Americans stem from ignorance and jealousy. I would not call it racist though. Again, your remark is racist. Mexican Americans are not illegal immigrants by definition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan
what a ridiculous post...
Wow, thanks for the deep thought, buddy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam
Where, in the first post, do you find that the OP used a direct correlation to a specific race ?
The only ones making assumptions about race are the ones who are arguing against me. But I am the racist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts?
As far as I know, you have to have working English language skills to gain citizenship in the US.
The Op stated she saw signs stating that you can apply for benefits without citizenship. She stated that she is the VICTIM of SS fraud. She stated that she would like to send her child to an English speaking school so her child's learning experience moves at a normal pace.
The answers were "How does illegal immigration affect you?" Why not send your kid to a private school?"
My question is why are we forced to pay taxes to support those that don't contribute to our economy? Why should the Op be taxed for schools then required to pay for school for her own child to learn? Why is it the Op is forced to prove her innocence in regard to SS fraud? Why is it that illegals can go to the emergency room and get free health care yet legals have to pay because they can be tracked?
I guess my real question is why do we have an immigration system at all? if we are going to close our eyes to illegal immigration than let's disband the immigration system completely. It seems quite racist and biased to me to enforce some laws while letting others go. And those that came legally and paid the price should be suing for a refund.
Thanks for this. It's like, well too bad for you and your kids, too bad you follow the laws, shutup and adjust your way of living for lawbreakers and if you don't like it you are a racist!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1
"We" i.e. the American public were never asked. When we've been asked if we want people who violate our immigration laws here we've always said a resounding no.
There are no jobs that Americans aren't willing to do. What we want is a fair wage and decent working conditions in return. People who take such jobs do not help most Americans. All they do is provide an incentive for employers to push back the labor gains of the last hundred years. They should not be welcomed to our country if that is their intent.
The money sent home to Mexico props up oligarchs and is untaxed. That does not benefit most Americans.
Yes, my relatives were immigrants. LEGAL immigrants who followed the law at the time. After the door was slammed shut in order to assimilate the newcomers they did not try and sneak in here illegally.
These people can better themselves in their own countries. If they made more of an effort to do some their countries might not be such bad places to begin with. Americans have no obligation to every single person who wants to move here simply to make more money.
This bothers many of us because we wind up paying the price for low skilled illegal migrants. We pay the price in overcrowded schools, greatly increased medical bills for local hospitals, food stamps for illegals and their children, untaxed wages and identity politics that hurts people who don't share the nationality of most illegal migrants.
Most of all we pay the price for their needs in an increased sense that our laws no longer matter. Illegal migrants don't simply violate one law. They violate multiple laws. That leads to problems with urban planning, decreased respect for ALL laws and a sense that our democracy is to be ignored when convenient.
If some of us aren't willing to pay it that makes us rational and intelligent beings rather than mere racists as has been repeatedly implied in this thread.
With one job for every five applicants and unemployment at a high level, I know that many people would work for 8, 9 or 10 dollars an hour. They shouldn't have to compete for jobs at below minimum wage rates because that is illegal (but I guess that doesn't matter).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar
Apparently you are unaware of the fact that 76% of farm workers are U.S. citizens and legal residents, and only an estimated 2-4% of illegal workers are employed in the ag industry. So, obviously, Americans are willing to do the “stoop†work, and a whopping 96-98% of illegals have chosen other “non-stoop†industries.
Why is the U.S. obligated to “straighten out†Mexico?
I have never been able to get a straight answer on this.
Except that Mexico isn't a race, it's a country and Spanish speakers can be white, black, or any race at all.
The majority of welfare abusers *should* be American born. It's one thing for this nation to take care of it's own but to strive to become the flophouse of the world and expect US taxpayers to provide the welfare handouts to the whole world is completely absurd.
But we are the racists, right? Question: how many illegal aliens can the US handle? How about the lower class citizens from all around the world come here. That's at least one billion people. If you say no, or that's not right, we can't support all of those people and besides, they would be breaking the law, you are a racist against each group within that whole.
Where do you draw the line? We can only pay so many taxes for welfare. Schools can only hold so many children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by culturedmom
I think it's wonderful that you are willing to be open to other's opinions and expereinces. I will say that you shouldn't allow other's to determine whether you are bigoted or not though. There will always be someone with a different point of view. However, after you hear other's point of view, if you then decide that maybe you are seeing things through a very narrow and privilegded lens, well that wouldn;t be a bad thing to re-examine.
Well no country should allow people to just be able to walk through borders. But I have a feeling you would have a very easy time getting a Visa to become a citizen of Mexico then a Mexican would have getting a Visa to live in the US. I don't know how much you know about applying for Visas, but it is impossible. Not only does the form and entire process need to be done in English, but the fees are high and then there is still a lottery where the odds are not favorable by any standards.
As for the breaking the law part, well our judicial system even allows for morality and reason. It's againstt he law to kill someone in the US. But if the person who committed the murder can prove they did so to save their own life and that they were in fact a victim, we give allowance for that. We are evolved enough to know that breaking the law is sometimes necessarey. If your family were starving, had no chance for education or work, and no matter how hard you worked (if you could even find work) you knew it would not be enough to even feed and clothe your children...I have a feeling breaking a law in order to save your family might be a little more OK to you.
I lived in Goodyear, AZ for a bit before moving back to Florida. My husband drove down W Main Street every day to get to work. I knew people who refused to drive down that street because it went through the part of Avondale that was like a little Mexico. And of course, everyone spoke Spanish. And coming from Hialeah, Fl. where almost everyone also speaks Spanish (because they are mainly all Cuban or Puerto Rican), I have heard this complaint quite often.
All I can offer as a possible (and probable) answer is from your description of yourself, you seem to be a very well educated, smart individual. Plus you mention you were in high school at the time you learned Spanish (did you learn it in high school?). I have a feeling that it is much easier for a high school student to learn another language then it would be for someone who comes to this country older, and has to work 24/7, with no assistance or classes, a fmaily ot care for, and also has to worry about the possibility of being hunted down and deported every second.
No you are not wrong for wanting the best education for your children. When I moved to Arkansas, I was concerned my kids would get a lower quality education and that the teacher's accents might confuse my kids. I found that even though my DD's class was behind where she was before we had moved, she gained much more. Plus they had gifted programs and other ways for kids to go beyond the classroom curriculum. That said, you are blaming the poor education on immigrants, and maybe that is unfair. Everywhere there are good and bad schools. I'm of the opinion that it is our countries poorly run education systme and NCLB crap that makes our schools behind other's in the world, not immigrants.
What?
Sigh. You are making a judgment based on your quick observance of what you perceeved to be the truth. You don;t know who owned those cars (maybe the people working at the office?) and you don;t know who those children belonged to (in HIspanic and Latino families it is common for family members to take care of each other's kids, especially when their mother's are working in the field). I am Latina. I have darker skin and curly hair. Sometimes I take my kids (I have 2) and their friends who are over to play to run errands. I guess smeone could look at me and assume with my last name that I have 5 kids. I just think you are assuming a heck of a lot, and to me that is far worse. Plus, just because you "no speaky Ingles" does not mean you are an immigrant.
You made some reasonable points (even if I don't agree) until I read the last paragraph. Please go back and re-read my narrative of the clinic experience, because you obviously missed something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetMePost
What jobs? You mean washing dishes in a kitchen, cleaning someone's house, being a janitor somehwere, doing road work or mowing some guy's yard for $25? I doubt too many of those unemployed Americans are just brushing up their resumes for the chance to have those jobs. You should be more upset about outsourcing. Tax dollars? Believe it or not, there are some illegals that end up paying taxes.
Look, I'm not saying that I would be against it being curbed or fixed, and in a perfect world it would be. However, this idea that illegal immigration is putting such an added stress on our country that we need divert the military to border right away or spend even a ridiculous amount of money to watch the border just seems to be a misappropriation of resources. You should ask yourself how an illegal immigrant affected your life today? Or last week? Or the last 6 months? If it doesn't go beyond having to see it on Fox News then I think we can postpone it for some more dire issues.
Americans don't clean homes or wash dishes? Where do you get this stuff? Hop on over to the unemployment forum. The amount of American citizens at their wit's end unable to find ANY job (even McDonald's) is heartbreaking. Don't insult them or me by saying they wouldn't wash dishes or clean homes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts?
And you are using the oft used term immigrant instead of illegal. There is a difference. And as hard as some may try to blur the line it is still there. And it is those that blur the line that cause problems for true immigrants.
I have been to Mexico many times. It is NOT Haiti or even close. Those that cross our border illegally know very well that they are breaking the law and then whine when we don't treat them better than many of our own citizens. They aren't coming because they can't feed their families there. And they don't give a tinkers dam about those who's jobs they take here. They are creating VICTIMS here.
And as to "no speaky Ingles", you can't have it both ways. Either there are too many here to deport or there aren't. People assuming that "no Ingles" indicates no papers believe that because of the propaganda they are fed. You reap what you sow.
I am tired of people trying to make illegal alien/immigrant/Mexican interchangeable.
The bolded part is the key (hilarious) part. I don't know any Americans who would like to be migrant farm workers. Not many people dream of doing stoop labor.
Someone else on this thread said, "thirty year's ago, Americans did these jobs." Uh, that would be a big "no."
There are many jobs Americans will not do migrant farm work is key.
If you are really against "illegal immigrants" then you should not eat any fresh produce, nor should you ever hire anyone without a green card to do gardening, etc.
These people are hardworking and trying to better themselves. Maybe the American government should do more to help Mexico get straightened out . . .oh, but that would mean Americans not being the number one customer for illegal drugs and that's another thing that feeds both countries that no one acknowledges.
I don't know any Canadians. Therefore, there are no Canadians. Do you know how ridiculous this sounds?
I don't hire illegal people to do gardening, and I get fresh produce from local farmer's markets.
I also don't do drugs. What are you saying?
And when are you going to apologize for stereotyping ME, ASSUMING that I am white, and accusing me of wanting a LILY WHITE SCHOOL for my kids? That was rude.
What jobs? You mean washing dishes in a kitchen, cleaning someone's house, being a janitor somehwere, doing road work or mowing some guy's yard for $25? I doubt too many of those unemployed Americans are just brushing up their resumes for the chance to have those jobs. You should be more upset about outsourcing. Tax dollars? Believe it or not, there are some illegals that end up paying taxes.
Look, I'm not saying that I would be against it being curbed or fixed, and in a perfect world it would be. However, this idea that illegal immigration is putting such an added stress on our country that we need divert the military to border right away or spend even a ridiculous amount of money to watch the border just seems to be a misappropriation of resources. You should ask yourself how an illegal immigrant affected your life today? Or last week? Or the last 6 months? If it doesn't go beyond having to see it on Fox News then I think we can postpone it for some more dire issues.
Blue collars jobs such as construction and entry level jobs for our youth, that's what! I am upset about both outsourcing and illegal alien labor. They are both detrimental to the American workforce.
Illegal aliens don't pay in enough taxes to cover their social costs, not by a mile. There presence here has impacted negatively most every American. The only ones gaining anything are the greedy employers. Educate yourself!
Stand up for the rule of law and our soveirgn borders and leave economics out of it anyway. There are more about this issue than economics anyway and in fact way more important.
The bolded part is the key (hilarious) part. I don't know any Americans who would like to be migrant farm workers. Not many people dream of doing stoop labor.
Someone else on this thread said, "thirty year's ago, Americans did these jobs." Uh, that would be a big "no."
There are many jobs Americans will not do migrant farm work is key.
If you are really against "illegal immigrants" then you should not eat any fresh produce, nor should you ever hire anyone without a green card to do gardening, etc.
These people are hardworking and trying to better themselves. Maybe the American government should do more to help Mexico get straightened out . . .oh, but that would mean Americans not being the number one customer for illegal drugs and that's another thing that feeds both countries that no one acknowledges.
There are unlimited visas for legal migrant farm workers and they only make up 2% of our workforce. The farmers choose illegal labor because it increases their profits while snubbing legal immigrants for those jobs. So let's leave that particular job out of the equasion shall we?
30 years and still today Americans do blue collar jobs. So what are you talking about? Knock it off about the drugs also. The majority of Americans don't do drugs and WTH has that to do with illegal aliens coming here and violating our immigration laws?
Oh, I see, we should just assume that all produce is picked by illegal aliens and don't buy it? We have no idea who is using illegal labor and who isn't. Should we penalize farmers who don't cheat by not buying any produce at all? FYI, I wouldn't hire anyone who isn't in this country legally nor would any other law abiding American so what is your point?
What BS that they are all hard working. Not one ethnic group regardless of status holds the market on "hard working". Talk about stupid stereotyping! Whether they work hard or not is beside the point anyway. The point is that they have no right to be working in this country.
So it ok with you for these illegals to gain their better life at the expense of Americans?
Except that Mexico isn't a race, it's a country and Spanish speakers can be white, black, or any race at all.
Really??? No way!!!! I've been to college AND graduate school, and never realized Mexico was a country!!! No duh, sherlock.
We've already established that Mexican is a nationality, which I've known since like 4th grade... but I asked earlier for a different word, to describe "dislike or ignorance towards people of a certain national origin," and nobody could give me one. So until I find a good word (aside from xenophobia, which was shot down for implying fear), I'll continue calling it racism - it's the same concept, really.
The only ones making assumptions about race are the ones who are arguing against me. But I am the racist.
Oh, c'mon... we read the first post, which was mostly about Mexicans/Mexico and Spanish-speaking immigrants. I don't recall reading anything about "those Chinese/Canadian/European immigrants" anywhere in your original post. And again, I realize Mexican is a nationality, but still don't know the equivalent word for "racist" against a nationality. But you can't sit here and claim "I never even mentioned them!" when we all see it in plain writing. I've tried to debate civilly with you on this thread, but you're acting like the OP had nothing to do with a certain group of people - when it clearly did. You have a right to those opinions, but at least own up to what you're saying.
Oh, c'mon... we read the first post, which was mostly about Mexicans/Mexico and Spanish-speaking immigrants. I don't recall reading anything about "those Chinese/Canadian/European immigrants" anywhere in your original post. And again, I realize Mexican is a nationality, but still don't know the equivalent word for "racist" against a nationality. But you can't sit here and claim "I never even mentioned them!" when we all see it in plain writing. I've tried to debate civilly with you on this thread, but you're acting like the OP had nothing to do with a certain group of people - when it clearly did. You have a right to those opinions, but at least own up to what you're saying.
I referred to incidents with Spanish speaking and POSSIBLY Mexican illegal (let's try to keep that clear here) immigrants because these are the ones that I have had the most contact with. It doesn't make my points any less valid that my experiences have been limited to a certain segment of this particular group. I will readily own up to what I am saying, but I am not only referring to Mexicans so let's not twist my words.
Would you concur that the largest illegal immigrant population in the US is more than likely from Mexico?
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 19,426,436 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut
Blue collars jobs such as construction and entry level jobs for our youth, that's what! I am upset about both outsourcing and illegal alien labor. They are both detrimental to the American workforce.
Illegal aliens don't pay in enough taxes to cover their social costs, not by a mile. There presence here has impacted negatively most every American. The only ones gaining anything are the greedy employers. Educate yourself!
Stand up for the rule of law and our soveirgn borders and leave economics out of it anyway. There are more about this issue than economics anyway and in fact way more important.
Even if illegals do pay SOME taxes, it doesn't out weigh the billions of dollars sent SOB annually.
I referred to incidents with Spanish speaking and POSSIBLY Mexican illegal (let's try to keep that clear here) immigrants because these are the ones that I have had the most contact with. It doesn't make my points any less valid that my experiences have been limited to a certain segment of this particular group. I will readily own up to what I am saying, but I am not only referring to Mexicans so let's not twist my words.
Would you concur that the largest illegal immigrant population in the US is more than likely from Mexico?
Don't try to change the subject. We all know what the demographics are, I was just saying you can't pretend the original post had nothing to do with Mexicans specifically - because it did. I read it again, just to see if I was missing something, and nowhere did I read anything about "illegals who don't speak Spanish or come from Mexico." The only point that even could have related to general illegal immigration was the SS issue, and that was quickly shot down because you don't even know who stole it... legal, illegal, Mexican, Canadian, or otherwise.
I actually know more El Salvadoreans than Mexicans who came here illegally... but you (most people) probably wouldn't know the difference, so they don't register on your radar as "non-Mexican illegal." I also know a Canadian illegal, but again he wouldn't be easily recognized as such. So while the Mexican illegals might be the largest & most visible group, they certainly aren't the only residents living here without papers. You say you've "only had experiences with a certain group," but how do you know? That guy who said "eh?" at the end of every sentence might be an illegal - you never know, unless you're doing green-card checks whenever you encounter a stranger.
For all of the pro illegal people posting here, there is a simple solution. Since some of you dont mind them coming here illegally why dont you all step up and pay for them. Let our tax dollars go back to work for AMERICANS, let our social programs no longer provide them benefits and anytime each and every one of them needs something you bleeding heart liberals can foot the bill.
Close the border, make it a mine field and the problem is solved. They are here illegally, that makes them criminals and they need to go home. The US cant afford to support the worlds poor, perhaps Mexico's corrupt government should take care of its people. For some of you that say how do they affect us..... you are not AMERICAN.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We all know what the demographics are, I was just saying you can't pretend the original post had nothing to do with Mexicans specifically - because it did. I read it again, just to see if I was missing something, and nowhere did I read anything about "illegals who don't speak Spanish or come from Mexico." The only point that even could have related to general illegal immigration was the SS issue, and that was quickly shot down because you don't even know who stole it... legal, illegal, Mexican, Canadian, or otherwise.
