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Old 08-04-2011, 10:21 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,592,401 times
Reputation: 1270

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Except that I am able to see people individually. If an illegal immigrant (or ANYONE) commits a serious crime, I think we can all agree that they need to be held accountable. However, like every other group, the number of criminals is going to be relatively low to the overall population. I am not arrogant or self-righteous enough to blame all for the actions of a few. Anecdotal, but I have known many many Hispanics here, some legal, some not, and none of them were serious offenders beyond their legal status (most were just visa overstays). In fact, Hispanics in certain areas have actually helped turn neighborhoods around by starting multiple small businesses.

I think most of the negativity is related to the drug trade along the US-Mexico border. Obviously a very serious problem, but Americans themselves are the biggest consumers of illegal drugs anywhere, and we need to take responsibility for our part in that violence. The "War on Drugs" is a total failure by any reasonable account. This problem is not going to go away so long as we don't address our own issues.
None of that, "Oh, these people are just here for a better life," can make the real effects of illegal immigration go away. Nor can you and your explanation of how you see individuals instead of a group. The truth is that they ARE a group. People try to think on a case-by-case basis for illegal immigrants, but they ARE a group. Basically, they ADD up to a problem. The sum is greater than the parts type of thing.

Also, I believe you are wrong about why people care about illegal immigration. You must have just started keeping up with the topic because people have been pissed about illegal immigration for decades now. The drug war just started gaining awareness about four or five years ago and even then it wasn't on the minds of those here in the United States like it is now. So, I think that you should know that you are incorrect about that.

You talk about Hispanics opening businesses. I don't know where you are from, but in my city Hispanic-owned businesses are frequented by Hispanics and then the small few who are curious about their stores. They don't really "help" the neighborhoods either. If there are any businesses here that help those who are not Hispanic, they are the lawn care businesses.

I seem like you joined the illegal immigration discussion very late because the issue has been going on for a LONG time. Long before the CNN coverage of the murders in Juarez or Acapulco.

 
Old 08-04-2011, 10:26 PM
 
335 posts, read 281,467 times
Reputation: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
There are negatives to all types of immigration. Let's be honest, though, there is far more outrage of *who* is illegally immigrating than that illegal immigration occurs, at least on this forum. I mean, would people be making threads about running away from neighborhoods and cities if the illegal immigrants were English? No f*cking way.
If these English illegal aliens were conducting themselves in the same manner that many illegal aliens from south of the border conduct themselves, then yes f*cking way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Serious criminals should absolutely be sent packing, but I see no reason why we can't reform our policies to make it easier to get people registered into the system and paying taxes. I would support a fine system, a requirement to learn English, being able to pass a comprehensive civics test, and stay out of legal trouble for a certain length of time. Mass deportation would severely hurt our economy and is not a viable option. Nor are laws that are largely based on racism and hysterical stereotypes.
Serious criminals? Is ID Theft a serious crime? Is Document Fraud a serious crime? How about Social Security Fraud?

We tried the amnesty approach back in 1986 (remember The Amnesty to end all amnesties?) and the illegal immigration problem is 10 times worse today. We need to learn from our past mistakes and not repeat them. Mass deportation would not severely hurt our economy and is a viable option. As illegal aliens are deported, their places in our workforce would be filled by American workers and legal foreign workers.

What laws do you believe are based on racism?
 
Old 08-04-2011, 10:29 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,592,401 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbartlebee View Post
If these English illegal aliens were conducting themselves in the same manner that many illegal aliens from south of the border conduct themselves, then yes f*cking way.



Serious criminals? Is ID Theft a serious crime? Is Document Fraud a serious crime? How about Social Security Fraud?

We tried the amnesty approach back in 1986 (remember The Amnesty to end all amnesties?) and the illegal immigration problem is 10 times worse today. We need to learn from our past mistakes and not repeat them. Mass deportation would not severely hurt our economy and is a viable option. As illegal aliens are deported, their places in our workforce would be filled by American workers and legal foreign workers.

What laws do you believe are based on racism?
 
Old 08-04-2011, 10:45 PM
 
1,691 posts, read 1,597,392 times
Reputation: 1168
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkie34 View Post
Hello, my family and I would like to move away from our city due to it's sancturay policies, number of illegal aliens, number of people that are dying here via hit and runs committed by them, watching our neighborhoods and strip malls go latino, and a host of other issues that we are just plain tired of dealing with. You can't even drive here without almost hitting a mexican, you can't shop without their children running all over the stores, you can't sleep without their loud music blaring all night long.
Watching places "go" latino? Drive without "hitting" a Mexican?

I'm surprised that City-Data allows this utter garbage to be posted. Reported.
 
Old 08-04-2011, 10:47 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 791,691 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbartlebee View Post
Serious criminals? Is ID Theft a serious crime? Is Document Fraud a serious crime? How about Social Security Fraud?
Those CAN be serious crimes. As committed by the bulk of illegals they aren't very serious. Generally they're using bogus SSNs that don't defraud any innocent Americans. They pay into SS and don't get anything back. Sounds pretty horrible to me.
 
Old 08-04-2011, 10:57 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,592,401 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by db108108 View Post
Watching places "go" latino? Drive without "hitting" a Mexican?

I'm surprised that City-Data allows this utter garbage to be posted. Reported.
LOL I didn't understand those phrases either when I read them, haha. However, I don't think that is a reportable offense.
 
Old 08-04-2011, 11:17 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,592,401 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Those CAN be serious crimes. As committed by the bulk of illegals they aren't very serious. Generally they're using bogus SSNs that don't defraud any innocent Americans. They pay into SS and don't get anything back. Sounds pretty horrible to me.


Do you really believe they are using "bogus SSNs?" Also, yeah, they put taxes into SS, but who is to say that that isn't being negated by any government assistance they are receiving? Also, many illegal immigrants are getting tax returns. Either for themselves or with their children included for the Earned Income Tax Credit.

Check the links below for stories of "innocent Americans" who did have their identities stolen. These are just two examples of many:

The secret list of ID theft victims - Security

Man Told To Pay Taxes On $40K Earned By Illegal Immigrant - Denver News Story - KMGH Denver
 
Old 08-04-2011, 11:30 PM
 
4,135 posts, read 9,146,227 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkie34 View Post
Hello, my family and I would like to move away from our city due to it's sancturay policies, number of illegal aliens, number of people that are dying here via hit and runs committed by them, watching our neighborhoods and strip malls go latino, and a host of other issues that we are just plain tired of dealing with. You can't even drive here without almost hitting a mexican, you can't shop without their children running all over the stores, you can't sleep without their loud music blaring all night long.

My family and I are fed up with this city. I've been researching various states and I understand illegal aliens have affected almost every metro in our union. I found information this morning identiyfing western PA, Wisconsin, Montana, parts of New England and the western Dakotas as having low illegal alien rates. Does anyone know of any others and how are things where you are?
It isn't the state, it is the area. I live in upstate WNY and in the cities, there are many immigrants ( real ones, not all illegals), esp. in the city of Buffalo -- many waiting to move to Canada! I am sure illegals are there, I just don't go in the areas with high populations of what could be illegals... I live 25 miles away, we have a town about 85% white, no sanctuary areas, total peace and quiet (except for the normal teenager zooming around in his/her new car in summer). In late summer, in areas north , south and east of us, there are migrant pickers ( fruits, soft veggies you cannot pick by machine) We rarely see them here as the farms in our area are all family farms. Most grow corn or hay and veggies for family or the roadside stand... so no need to hire help -- family or machines do the picking.

Check the area, not just a state. If you want rural, NY has lots to offer
 
Old 08-04-2011, 11:34 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 791,691 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoEdible View Post


Do you really believe they are using "bogus SSNs?"
Do you have anything showing otherwise? Yes, there are stories here and there about isolated incidents in which illegals actually commit real ID theft, but this is something US citizens do as well. And note, these are certainly isolated (which is precisely WHY they are "news" - if they were all doing it then we wouldn't be hearing scare stories occasionally).

Quote:
Also, yeah, they put taxes into SS, but who is to say that that isn't being negated by any government assistance they are receiving? Also, many illegal immigrants are getting tax returns. Either for themselves or with their children included for the Earned Income Tax Credit.
But this argument is different that what you were saying earlier. If they're getting other "government assistance" this isn't "social security fraud." As for "getting tax returns" you're going to have to be more specific.

Quote:
Check the links below for stories of "innocent Americans" who did have their identities stolen. These are just two examples of many:

The secret list of ID theft victims - Security

Man Told To Pay Taxes On $40K Earned By Illegal Immigrant - Denver News Story - KMGH Denver
Yes, as I said, isolated incidents. And clearly, no US citizen has ever done anything like this. There's nothing about these particular crimes that is specific to illegals, and nothing that indicates ALL (or even MANY) illegals are engaging in these particular types of crimes.

As I said before, these CAN be serious crimes. And the ones that are actually serious should be prosecuted.
 
Old 08-05-2011, 12:47 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,795 posts, read 12,799,142 times
Reputation: 5467
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbartlebee View Post
If these English illegal aliens were conducting themselves in the same manner that many illegal aliens from south of the border conduct themselves, then yes f*cking way.

In which way are they conducting themselves, exactly? So this is not about race/language/culture, but about how the entirety, or at least a vast majority, are just terrible people out to cause this country harm.

And how exactly is that reasoning any better than blatant racism, again?

Serious criminals? Is ID Theft a serious crime? Is Document Fraud a serious crime? How about Social Security Fraud?

I don't see these things as black and white. Murder, sure, that's one thing. Getting a back-alley SS card, not so much. Wrong, yes... understandable, absolutely. While you may turn a blind eye to why someone would do this, I don't.

We tried the amnesty approach back in 1986 (remember The Amnesty to end all amnesties?) and the illegal immigration problem is 10 times worse today.

Actually, no it's not. All recent figures suggest strongly that rates of illegal immigration have slowed drastically and may have even reversed a bit. Why? Economics. Our economy has been crap since at least 2007, and the economies of those countries most illegals are from have been improving some, giving these people less incentive to risk coming here. Sorry, but economics, and not billion-dollar fences or racial profiling, drive immigration and always has.

We need to learn from our past mistakes and not repeat them. Mass deportation would not severely hurt our economy and is a viable option. As illegal aliens are deported, their places in our workforce would be filled by American workers and legal foreign workers.

Sorry, but this is just shockingly wrong. Why do you think companies here hire illegals? Is it because they are so much better workers than Americans? Or perhaps it's because companies can get away with paying them signifcantly lower wages, thereby keeping costs lower across the board. You think removing cheap labor and raising costs on goods is a great thing for an already struggling economy? You think Americans will seriously rush to pick fruit and work in dangerous factories for sub-par wages and no benefits? Good luck with that.

What laws do you believe are based on racism?
Any law that promotes racial profiling. Arizona's comes to mind.
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