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View Poll Results: Do you think inmates should replace illegal aliens in labor-intensive jobs?
YES, that makes the inmate productive and gets rid of illegals. 31 83.78%
NO, inmates should be able to chill out all day and eat free. 1 2.70%
Other (explain below). 3 8.11%
I do not know. 2 5.41%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-16-2007, 06:47 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,627,052 times
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Sounds like this may be a good idea in today's society, but I don't know. The reason that prison labor was so severely restricted in the early 20th century was that often it competed unfairly with "free" labor- the prisoners were seen as "putting workers out of jobs". Also the system, particularly in the South, was practically a wide-open invitation to corruption and abuse, when a "landowner" would ask the sherriff for a load of "bodies" to do his work. The landowner then assumed the duty of temporarily feeding and housing them. (While overseeing his own honesty, of course). If there was a shortage, the police could always go out and "round up" a few transients or vagrants, just, by coincidence, in time for the harvest.
So vulnerable was this sort of "indentured servitude" to widespread abuses, and so tempting as a "money saver" for farmers and a "money maker" for the corrections system, that it was largely abandoned as a public scandal.
Whether or not it can be revived under modern oversights remains to be seen. Fine idea if the abuses are controlled.
PS I'm pretty sure that Arizona, like Alabama, also toyed with the "Chain Gang" idea in recent years- not sure if it ever lasted, or is still in use in Arizona. (This in addition to Sherriff Joe Arpaio's infamous "tent city")..
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Old 07-16-2007, 08:49 PM
 
Location: The best country in the world: the USA
1,497 posts, read 4,377,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cil View Post
Do inmates really work in chain-gangs in Alabama?
Non-violent inmates work on the side of the road here in Florida (not in chain gangs!), but I am not exactly sure of the effect that has here on illegal immigration.
In Florida, the inmates you see collecting trash and stuff have committed misdeameanors and are considered "low risk" and are called "Trustees". These guys don't do anything really.

The chain-gang system of inmates cleaning roads, clearning shrubs was BANNED by Disney who said toursist don't like it.

Most liberals don't like the chain-gang forced labor because it takes away jobs from illegal aliens and it makes inmates work. According to my Bostonian friend (who is a hardcore liberal - and I worked with him for 2 years *sigh*), inmates are "victims" of unfair laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Sounds like this may be a good idea in today's society, but I don't know.
PS I'm pretty sure that Arizona, like Alabama, also toyed with the "Chain Gang" idea in recent years- not sure if it ever lasted, or is still in use in Arizona. (This in addition to Sherriff Joe Arpaio's infamous "tent city")..
I am not sure if Arizona did the chain gang thing... but Arizona has one of the best jail systems in the Phoenix area, ran by THE ONLY intelligent Sheriff in the United States of America: a hero named Joe Arpaio!

This guy has illegal aliens and criminals on the run. Think any alien or crimiansl wnats to be in his jail? Hah, I doubt it.
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:48 PM
 
919 posts, read 1,669,450 times
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Default rich farmers?

so all farmers are rich? or just the corporate ones? just because somebody buys a 250k combine there just rich folks. I wish my dad and uncles would have told me we were rich. some of you must live in the city and think milk comes from the store instead of a rich farm cow talk about bull ****. the rich farmers are the kids that sell the land after the farmer dies.
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:59 PM
 
Location: The mountians of Northern California.
1,354 posts, read 5,633,642 times
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Some prisons in CA have been doing this for years. One of the prisons in Susanville, CA has contracts with local alpalpha farmers for prison labor. The inmates get paid a little more then $4. I am pretty sure its a seasonal job, but its all volunteer. $4 is more then they would make in any other prison job besides fire fighting. They also get perks, like time off their sentences, etc.

THe prison is able to do this even with illegal workers. Come harvest time, our town's population JUMPS. So even with the illegal competition, there are still jobs for the inmates.
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Alabama!
5,802 posts, read 15,501,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cil View Post
Do inmates really work in chain-gangs in Alabama?
Non-violent inmates work on the side of the road here in Florida (not in chain gangs!), but I am not exactly sure of the effect that has here on illegal immigration.
Currently, there are no chain gangs in Alabama. Inmates are often used to pick up trash on the road. Usually they like getting outside for more than an hour a day.
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Northeast
1,298 posts, read 2,367,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark6052 View Post
so all farmers are rich? or just the corporate ones? just because somebody buys a 250k combine there just rich folks. I wish my dad and uncles would have told me we were rich. some of you must live in the city and think milk comes from the store instead of a rich farm cow talk about bull ****. the rich farmers are the kids that sell the land after the farmer dies.
Then sell the land. Whether or not a farmer makes any money is not my problem. It's a business like any other, and they do not deserve charity from the penal system in the form of cheap labor. They also do not deserve MY tax money. Those guards, taxes pay them. Those buses, taxes maintain them and fill the tanks. Are the farmers paying for that, or just the $4 an hour to their captive workforce? What a grand illusion these people have created.

What about that person who just opened a restaurant? Are they entitled to $4 an hour dishwashers from the prison when market rate in the area is 6 or 7 an hour? How about construction? Maybe poor Donald Trump needs some folks to carry materials around at the job sites?

....and YES, if you own that much land, and can buy a quarter million dollar piece of equipment, a SINGLE piece of equipment, you ARE rich. Maybe not Bill Gates rich, but you're definitely worth some cash. My guess is if you can afford a $250,000 combine, your total net worth has to be in the neighborhood of at LEAST 2 million. If that's the case, sell it all and live off bank interest. 5% of 2 mil is $100,000 a year. I wish I could pull that off without working.

~T
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Old 10-03-2007, 06:13 AM
 
Location: Norway
312 posts, read 326,535 times
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Voluntary labour for prison inmates that gives them a work history and some real employment prospects after serving their time has to be a good thing for everyone involved.

Unfortunately, if the wages given above ($9+ per hour per inmate paid to the state) are correct, it's very likely that the produce coming off those farms can't compete on price with produce from farms that use immigrant (i.e. Mexican) labour - illegal or otherwise. Unless they're going to market the products heavily using government subsidies for ad campaigns and the like. "Eat American, support our prisons" or something , farms using inmate labour over illegal labour will likely suffer financially.

I think it's basically a good idea though, and ironically very much in tune with what's been done in low-security prisons in ultra-leftist liberal devil Scandinavia for several years already...
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Old 10-03-2007, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Northern VA (for now)
23,034 posts, read 32,014,757 times
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This is a brilliant idea. kills two birds with one stone. elimantes need for illegals and gives prisoners good job aspects and something to work toward.
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Old 10-03-2007, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Land of Thought and Flow
8,323 posts, read 13,160,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YapCity View Post
Then sell the land. Whether or not a farmer makes any money is not my problem. It's a business like any other, and they do not deserve charity from the penal system in the form of cheap labor. They also do not deserve MY tax money. Those guards, taxes pay them. Those buses, taxes maintain them and fill the tanks. Are the farmers paying for that, or just the $4 an hour to their captive workforce? What a grand illusion these people have created.
Well, the farmers are paying out approximately $9.60 an hour (per person!) while the prisoners make $4 a DAY. Let's say it's an eight hour day. That means that the farmers are paying out $76.80 per person... and take the $4 to the inmate.... that makes $72.80 per person.

Quote:
Buckham, incarcerated for embezzlement, is one of 15 prisoners at Pueblo's minimum-security La Vista Correctional Facility who plant crops and pull weeds as part of a new prison farm-labor program.
15 x 72.80 = 1092. $1092 A DAY. That pays for the guards to watch them. That pays for maintaining the bus and gas. Your tax dollars are only going towards the inmates who are not on the field working.

Personally, I think this is a great idea. I've always been for the reform of criminals - voluntarily. Like stated, it gives somebody who has made a mistake in life to get a second chance, to learn a valuable and profitable trade.

What would show an even more successful aspect of this program.. is for one or more of those individuals to work for the farmer after getting out of jail.
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Old 10-03-2007, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,902,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YapCity View Post
It's slave labor.

Some choice. Sit in jail all day or work for FOUR DOLLARS AN HOUR?

I guess minimum wage is out the window if you have a deal with the government?

I'm glad these people are working, don't get me wrong, but I'm concerned with who is benefiting from it. Somehow, there are many boobs out there who think of farmers with these romantic notions of poor hardworking men, pushing a plow through a field all day for barely enough money to put food on the table. That's because all the movies and tv you see about farming have to do with failed, broke farmers. Bull

Farmers are generally loaded. That combine they're driving costs almost $250,000.00. The LAND, c'mon. This is not a business you start-up with a couple thousand dollars and a dream. Why are they getting these people so cheap?

I think it's crap.

~T
First of all we are talking criminals convicted of crimes. They deserve to be worked hard. That is the penalty for being a criminal.
Farmers are loaded? I grew up on a Dairy farm. We worked 12 to 18 hour days. We were poor but happy. Yes that combine costs 250 grand. Average tractor costs more than 75 grand today. Dairy farmers get paid the same for milk today as they did in 1980...... About $11.00 for a hundred pounds of milk. 13 pound to the gallon. The cost of everything since 1980???? Farmers are loaded? Yes the huge co ops have some money. Not all farms are huge coops.
Back to the convict work program. I am all for forcing these convicts to earn and pay for their stay in prison. They are in prison because they felt they were above the laws of civilized man. Is it not fitting that they should have to pay for their crimes against society by doing a job that feeds those same victims?
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