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View Poll Results: Do you think inmates should replace illegal aliens in labor-intensive jobs?
YES, that makes the inmate productive and gets rid of illegals. 31 83.78%
NO, inmates should be able to chill out all day and eat free. 1 2.70%
Other (explain below). 3 8.11%
I do not know. 2 5.41%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-03-2007, 11:08 AM
 
207 posts, read 925,308 times
Reputation: 145

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I dont know if id want a bunch of convicted felons handling the food I eat
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Old 10-04-2007, 03:31 AM
 
Location: Norway
312 posts, read 325,630 times
Reputation: 314
[quote=tinman01;1639450]They are in prison because they felt they were above the laws of civilized man.quote]
That's a little simplistic. Some of these people are in prison because the circumstances in which they found themselves left them very little other choice, which combined with a lack of education and refinement led to their being apprehended and sentenced. Most people who are in prison come from a very disadvantaged background and then proceeded to make some very unwise decisions on how to improve their situation - that doesn't necessarily make them ravening antisocial monsters.

Anyway, FORCED labour, i.e. slavery, has been outlawed in the US and in most of the rest of the world for some time now, and I don't think anyone's in a hurry to reinstate that. Besides, slaves are not efficient workers, even under threat of physical punishment they tend to work slower and cause more errors/mishaps than ordinary employees. Might have something to do with motivation.

As needaplace somewhat bluntly states, not all inmates are suited for this kind of program anywa. You certainly won't want Charles Manson or the Unabomber in such a situation, as the possibility of escape is MUCH higher than from the confines or a prison.
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Old 10-04-2007, 04:21 AM
 
Location: Concord, California.
430 posts, read 1,259,048 times
Reputation: 89
Agricultural (crop farming specifically) is the ONLY sector where there is a true shortage of americans willing to do the work. We may need a guest worker program to sustain that for now, -but the whole U.S. system of agriculture is now unsustainable, and I think we will in the long term need to see (and eventually WILL see) a lot more small farms that don't use migrant labor, but just the farmer and his/her family+plus any hired jobs that need filing done by locals working under decent conditions. After the meatpacking raids, there were very long lines of american applicants for those jobs. In some other sectors, there is a shortage that are both willing AND able/employable. but that can be changed by skills upgrading and changes in public education+higher wages in some cases.
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Old 10-04-2007, 04:31 AM
 
Location: Concord, California.
430 posts, read 1,259,048 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana-Guy View Post
Check out the video:

FOXNews.com - Video Launch Page - FOXNews.com

To those who think we don't have enough workers in the US to do all the jobs cheaply for corporations, here is what the smart state of Colorado did.

Post comments appropriately! Thank you.
I think prisoners should work and be rehabilitated to the extent possible, and face restitution, but I don't think farm work like this is a good idea, and forced it is unconstitutional. Also, for industries other than agriculture, a worker shortage is actualy NOT not a problem, and if anything there is a surplus but many would like to pretty much just throw a lot of people away. but greed and class prejudice (against the native working class) means there is plenty of motive for propoganda to try and make it look like it is. Most "jobs americans won't do" are actualy still filled by U.S. born americans in the country as a whole, -but not throughout and encreasingly less so.

If we just didn't have any immigrants coming to the U.S., than the economy would stop growing along with population after a while. Which would be fine with me, -permanent growth is NOT sustainable, and is truly a crazy idea if you think about it. It is now the american mainstreem view, but everyone should read the book popular delusions and the madness of crowds even though I don't think it addresses this specifically, but it dose adress how sociaty as a whole can be mad, but in that what is mad gets called normal. -Emil.
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Old 10-04-2007, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Norway
312 posts, read 325,630 times
Reputation: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtallredhead View Post
Agricultural (crop farming specifically) is the ONLY sector where there is a true shortage of americans willing to do the work.
The problem is not a shortage of willing hands, but an unwillingness on the part of employers to pay wages that reflect a reasonable standard of living in the community in question. This seems to apply more to manual work and work that doesn't require formal qualifications, and it's not an exclusively American phenomenon. Until owners are willing to take profit cuts in order to claim the moral high ground, there will continue to be a market for illegal immigrant labour internationally. If employers stop hiring illegals, the illegals will go away.
As for ending immigration completely, that is impossible. First of all , the US has obligations to receive a certain quota of people with refugee status as determined by the UN. Also, some American citizens meet their spouses abroad and wish to bring them to the US, and many businesses and educational institutions also search internationally for skilled employees.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:18 PM
 
627 posts, read 780,023 times
Reputation: 252
Smile Inmate laborers

IMO there are few programs that does not have some disadvantages. However the Colorado program appears sound to me although it may need some trial & error adjustments from time to time.
First, I know many farmers are not wealthy and I know migrant foreign workers are already compensated in housing and other residuals in addition to their wages--with inmates they already have housing, etc.
Second, I would just as soon consume food gathered by inmates as I would 'stinky nelson' or 'sneaky gonzales', many inmates have been vaccinated and already screened for diseases--besides produce is to be washed before consuming.
Third, the skin cancer and other liability issues can be dealt with as many inmates would willing give their permission to work--it is a reasonable choice for many. How many suits have ex-cons won concerning various aspects of prison life that many of us have heard about!
Forth, accepting labor and being paid for it is not slave labor or unconstitutional. There has always been labor--some of it hard, performed by inmates. Some pays a small wage and some may not.

With a growing inmate population and the many problems of having foreign agra-workers living among us, this use of the inmate population should be used and perfected. If not immediately, the program should be financially beneficial to all and the residual benefits to society numerous. Naturally, these programs must be policed to prevent exploitation and other issues--but that should not be out of the reach of competent management.
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Old 10-23-2007, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
[quote=Norgy;1647985]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
They are in prison because they felt they were above the laws of civilized man.quote]
That's a little simplistic. Some of these people are in prison because the circumstances in which they found themselves left them very little other choice, which combined with a lack of education and refinement led to their being apprehended and sentenced. Most people who are in prison come from a very disadvantaged background and then proceeded to make some very unwise decisions on how to improve their situation - that doesn't necessarily make them ravening antisocial monsters.

Anyway, FORCED labour, i.e. slavery, has been outlawed in the US and in most of the rest of the world for some time now, and I don't think anyone's in a hurry to reinstate that. Besides, slaves are not efficient workers, even under threat of physical punishment they tend to work slower and cause more errors/mishaps than ordinary employees. Might have something to do with motivation.

As needaplace somewhat bluntly states, not all inmates are suited for this kind of program anywa. You certainly won't want Charles Manson or the Unabomber in such a situation, as the possibility of escape is MUCH higher than from the confines or a prison.
Simplistic maybe but also very true.
Criminals have long used excuses for the crimes they commit. How seldom they actually accept personal responsibility. Whats even more sad is that society as a whole will actually accept these excuses at all. Many who grow up in the exact same enviroments have instead of crime choosen to do honest work and succeed at being honest citizens. I grew up poor but not once ever considered crime.
Gang bangers whats their excuse again?
Murderers and rapists, child molestors, bank robbers? Work them till they drop they deserve little else.
Our compassion for those who have none is if not our greatest failing one of the top 3.
Personally I believe we should save the tax payer some money and do it like china. Guilty take them out and shoot them for the rabid dogs they are.
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