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Old 01-27-2011, 03:15 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
That is a legitimate difference. There are also similarities, such as your shared white populism. White populism, a facet of which is "angry white male syndrome."



Rhetorical complaints about "the race card" themselves constitute white populist sentiments. The foundation of white populism is the belief that institutional racism against non-whites no longer exists because formal discrimination has been legally abolished, and the primary problem (or a problem of comparable significance to anti-non-white racism), is "anti-white racism" through affirmative action programs, "political correctness," and such. The term "race card" is intended to denigrate and delegitimize observations about racism or bigotry by depicting them as frivolous. White populism is a potential gateway to white nationalist and supremacist beliefs.



Apart from the fact that "Hispanics" are not a race, and include a substantial number of whites, the fact that you have depicted the majority of "black, hispanics, etc." as opponents of "us whites" actually sets the white populist framework: the interests of non-whites versus the interests of whites.



This cliché is a rather frequent response to my demonstration of the similar sentiments of various white populists, along with complaints about "guilt by association," but they would only be legitimate refutations if there were some random or occasional correlation between these groups that I had seized on. In fact, there is ideological similarity on a wide host of social issues. The only major schism on the topic of race relations between white supremacists and mainstream rightists that I have found regards ethnic Jews, since mainstream rightists tend to be neoconservatives that are zealously supportive of the Israeli government. Paleoconservatives bridge that gap however, which is why many white supremacists tend to be fans of Pat Buchanan.



"Northe[r]n New Mexico Apache"? What would you say to posting a few comments in Jicarilla? I have a sneaking suspicion that you're about as "Apache" as Kele.



No, I believe that the enforcement of laws is very important, which is why I favor the enforcement of the Fourth Amendment, a constituent of the highest law of the land, over the enforcement of SB 1070.
You can put all the phoney labels you want on us "whites" that you want but it falls on deaf ears because our only objection is to illegal immigration. It isn't a racist stance whatsoever.

I never said that Hispanic was a race. I was just referring to the ethnic makeup or race of people that post in here that object to illegal immigration. I find it very revealing that the pro-advocates for illegals always pick on the non-Hispanic white race as if they are the only ones who object to illegal immigration. You never hear them say that a black or brown person is a populist or supremist for objecting to illegal immigration.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:25 PM
 
Location: SELA
532 posts, read 875,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
You can put all the phoney labels you want on us "whites" that you want but it falls on deaf ears because our only objection is to illegal immigration. It isn't a racist stance whatsoever.
This is a pair of strawmen. In regard to the first, I never applied any labels to "whites," but applied an accurate label to white populists. While white populists are typically white, there are non-white white populists, such as David Yeagley, who is to be a featured speaker at the 2011 conference of the white supremacist American Renaissance (AmRen) organization. Here is an example of his white populist commentary: The Hated White Race

As to the second, I did not state that "objection...to illegal immigration" was "a racist stance." I am an opponent of illegal immigration myself, and support legalization of all immigration to abolish its illegal nature. However, I did imply, in connection with past statements I have made, that conceptualizing illegal immigrants and/or undocumented residents as constituents of an invading force with irredentist intentions, and prone to laziness and theft through abuse of welfare programs and such, and associating a particular racial group with illegal immigrants to such an extent that a specific stereotypical physical appearance pops into one's mind when the term "illegal alien" is mentioned, might be a gateway to inferences about that racial group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I never said that Hispanic was a race. I was just referring to the ethnic makeup or race of people that post in here that object to illegal immigration.
The dichotomy that you have created is that "white" people generally "object to illegal immigration," whereas "black" and "brown" people generally do not, with exceptions to the rule on both sides, with the consequence being that whiteness is associated (even if subconsciously) with law abidance and blackness and brownness with its antithesis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I find it very revealing that the pro-advocates for illegals always pick on the non-Hispanic white race as if they are the only ones who object to illegal immigration.
Inasmuch as I do not regard the "non-Hispanic white race" as anything but an artificial social construct, and in many ways a sociological fiction, I will have to assume that you to not refer to me. Regardless, what do you find this "very revealing" of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
You never hear them say that a black or brown person is a populist or supremist for objecting to illegal immigration.
Nor do I say that a "white person" is a "populist or suprem[ac]ist" for objecting to illegal immigration." I do surmise that white people are white populists when I see that they share a substantial number of views on race relations with white supremacists as a result of possessing the same axiomatic foundations, with non-whites occasionally being white populists also.
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Old 01-27-2011, 07:26 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
This is a pair of strawmen. In regard to the first, I never applied any labels to "whites," but applied an accurate label to white populists. While white populists are typically white, there are non-white white populists, such as David Yeagley, who is to be a featured speaker at the 2011 conference of the white supremacist American Renaissance (AmRen) organization. Here is an example of his white populist commentary: The Hated White Race

As to the second, I did not state that "objection...to illegal immigration" was "a racist stance." I am an opponent of illegal immigration myself, and support legalization of all immigration to abolish its illegal nature. However, I did imply, in connection with past statements I have made, that conceptualizing illegal immigrants and/or undocumented residents as constituents of an invading force with irredentist intentions, and prone to laziness and theft through abuse of welfare programs and such, and associating a particular racial group with illegal immigrants to such an extent that a specific stereotypical physical appearance pops into one's mind when the term "illegal alien" is mentioned, might be a gateway to inferences about that racial group.



The dichotomy that you have created is that "white" people generally "object to illegal immigration," whereas "black" and "brown" people generally do not, with exceptions to the rule on both sides, with the consequence being that whiteness is associated (even if subconsciously) with law abidance and blackness and brownness with its antithesis.



Inasmuch as I do not regard the "non-Hispanic white race" as anything but an artificial social construct, and in many ways a sociological fiction, I will have to assume that you to not refer to me. Regardless, what do you find this "very revealing" of?



Nor do I say that a "white person" is a "populist or suprem[ac]ist" for objecting to illegal immigration." I do surmise that white people are white populists when I see that they share a substantial number of views on race relations with white supremacists as a result of possessing the same axiomatic foundations, with non-whites occasionally being white populists also.
But why do you dwell on "white populists" or any other white radical group unless you have an agenda to smear all whites? They do not represent the majority of non-hispanic whites in this country. It is something that I have noticed about the illegal alien sympathizers.

Another thing that illegal alien sympathizers do is to claim they aren't pro-illegal immigration but yet they want them to be rewarded with legalization/amnesty/citizenship for thumbing their noses at our immigration laws and anyone who objects to that is viewed as a racist. It is mostly Hispanics citizens who do that. Oh, I see let's just make anyone who manages to sneak in here illegally, legal and that will solve the problem? Where does it end? How many millions or billions do you think we can accomodate?

Of course when an illegal alien is mentioned the immediate picture one would get in their mind is that of a Mexican. Well duh, the majority here illegally are Mexicans or other Latinos. That's not to say that we don't know there are other illegal aliens here.

My point was that it isn't only non-hispanic whites that object to legalization of illegal aliens. We have many blacks and even some Hispanics that do. But the fact remains that far too many Hispanics are advocates for amnesty/legalization of these illegal aliens because they are mostly ethnically like themselves.

There is nothing inaccurate about calling someone a non-hispanic white. It simply means they are white racially but not Hispanic culturally.

Some illegals are lazy. Some are welfare users. I don't think anyone has said that they all are. The fact is that they are an invading force. If you don't enter someone's house or country invited by the collective owners you are an invader.
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Old 01-27-2011, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,563 posts, read 15,771,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
This will never have a chance in hell of passing unless it is put into an initiative like the same-sex marriage ban that passed in ultra liberal California. Still, I don't think it'll pass anyway. Most Californians suffer from liberalism and unfortunately there's no prescription to cure it
As a stand alone ballot initiative it has a shot at passing. According to this map of Prop 187 votes seems like it passed all but a few counties. Whether it could get through their liberal loony courts is another matter.


California Proposition 187 (1994) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 01-27-2011, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,563 posts, read 15,771,473 times
Reputation: 6259
Fifty percent of Blacks and Asians in California voted for Prop 187. Opposition to Illegal Immigration is not merely a right wing white reactionary movement. It's an American Backlash against the elites like Ted Kennedy who foisted this nonsense upon us.

CBS’s Smith Claims Prop 187, Blocking Handouts to Illegals, Lost --8/13/2003-- Media Research Center


[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
Quote:
[SIZE=3] “Proposition 187, the illegal alien initiative, which passed statewide by a 59% to 41% margin, carried in all major regions of the state except the San Francisco Bay Area. Support for Prop. 187 was extremely high in the Inland Empire (+40 points), the North Coast/Sierras (+36 points), San Diego/Orange (+34 points) and the Central Valley (+32 points).
“White non-Hispanic voters favored Prop. 187 by a 28-percentage point margin, and white men supported it by 38 points. On the other hand, Latinos voted No by a 46-point margin. Blacks and Asians were about evenly divided, with 52% of each group voting Yes and 48% voting No.” [/SIZE]
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:21 PM
 
841 posts, read 789,892 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by marleymaple View Post
Yeah, I wish everyone outside of CA could walk through East Los Angeles or a Walmart in CA and try to decide what third world country they were in. It's already gone up the coast all the way to WA and spread on over to WY and ID. There's no shortages of illegals in rural KS or NW Arkansas. Now NC has been plagued with it spreading it down to SC and VA. Not too mention Florida's illegal problem spreading throughout GA. Don't forget all the illegals running around Chicago spreading down into our rural farming communities of central IL. People need to learn that just because you aren't in the extreme south west that you're safe from illegals like 10-15 years ago.
Me too, appreciate your informative demographics! It seems like I'm in Mexico much of the time outside of L.A. for obvious reasons, i'd like to hear English spoken more instead of constant Spanish, less crowding would be a relief too. Just in last two years increasingly large numbers of Asians have added to the mostly Latino population: From Monterey Park, Alhambra, San gabriel (into some of Rosemead and Arcadia) are now most all Asian businesses and banks galore. They own the Arcadia Mall where my daughter and I went day after TG and all in mall were Asian except us it seemed. I like them, they are usually very polite people, but if illegaly here should go.
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:42 PM
 
841 posts, read 789,892 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
This is another example of a white populist sentiment:



These references to "East Los Angeles or a Walmart in CA" and the comparison to a "third world country" are constituents of a lamentation about white flight, and hints that regions or municipalities populated by a significant number of indio people are doomed to self-destruction. Consider the similar comments from Stormfront:











This comment was posted from East Los Angeles College, by the way.
I agree with most all of your quotes in your last post, thank you. Your comment posted from East Los Angeles College is no surprise, know something about East L.A. College, my relative lives across the street. The group that does all the tribal pow wows have a classroom there allowed by the college, and this group distributes flyers "white's go back to Europe, you stole our land" and other very hateful speech towards whites/Europeans, and they march in illegal immigration parades with the signs. Thank goodness ELAC is now tearing down the swap meet, too many compaints it was 3rd world.

Last edited by clsicmovies; 01-27-2011 at 09:54 PM..
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:09 PM
 
841 posts, read 789,892 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
I remember when prop 187 was initiate. There was a long battle over it before it was considered unconstitutional.

And as mentioned earlier by Jayarcy:
I also remember when other states wouldn't help Ca, because they didn't want to get involved with illegal immigration.
It didn't take long for them to wake up and see that they were already involved.

I was a community leader and vise chairperson of our town hall meetings at the time.
After prop 187 was over turned, illegals flocked to Ca. And it seemed from there, most of the seat for the County Board of Supervisors, in several counties (including the Inland Empire) started being filled by pro-illegal Hispanics.
I don't recall 1 meeting with our(5th) district Supervisor (Josie Gonzles) where she didn't argue with us tooth and nail, mainly over population growth. She wanted it and that was it. She even said that she wanted more illegals(squatters) in the community. We filed a recall against her. But it didn't seem to work.
Now the community I lived in for 25 yr's is taken over by illegals.

It seemed like the over turning of prop187 caused a title wave through So Ca.
When the government has an agenda in favor of illegal aliens and some influence over judges, the pro illegal groups know it and will continue to keep fighting with the government on their side. Over turning prop 187 was a perfect take over. You served well. When I heard Rand Paul say we've come to take our gov. back I about jumped up and down.
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Old 01-28-2011, 08:42 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
Reputation: 17687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
That is a legitimate difference. There are also similarities, such as your shared white populism. White populism, a facet of which is "angry white male syndrome."



Rhetorical complaints about "the race card" themselves constitute white populist sentiments. The foundation of white populism is the belief that institutional racism against non-whites no longer exists because formal discrimination has been legally abolished, and the primary problem (or a problem of comparable significance to anti-non-white racism), is "anti-white racism" through affirmative action programs, "political correctness," and such. The term "race card" is intended to denigrate and delegitimize observations about racism or bigotry by depicting them as frivolous. White populism is a potential gateway to white nationalist and supremacist beliefs.



Apart from the fact that "Hispanics" are not a race, and include a substantial number of whites, the fact that you have depicted the majority of "black, hispanics, etc." as opponents of "us whites" actually sets the white populist framework: the interests of non-whites versus the interests of whites.



This cliché is a rather frequent response to my demonstration of the similar sentiments of various white populists, along with complaints about "guilt by association," but they would only be legitimate refutations if there were some random or occasional correlation between these groups that I had seized on. In fact, there is ideological similarity on a wide host of social issues. The only major schism on the topic of race relations between white supremacists and mainstream rightists that I have found regards ethnic Jews, since mainstream rightists tend to be neoconservatives that are zealously supportive of the Israeli government. Paleoconservatives bridge that gap however, which is why many white supremacists tend to be fans of Pat Buchanan.



"Northe[r]n New Mexico Apache"? What would you say to posting a few comments in Jicarilla? I have a sneaking suspicion that you're about as "Apache" as Kele.



No, I believe that the enforcement of laws is very important, which is why I favor the enforcement of the Fourth Amendment, a constituent of the highest law of the land, over the enforcement of SB 1070.
I would value your validation as much as any other off topic, 7/11 over the counter conversation. Thanks for your usual thread derailment. Your affliction for Kele has been interesting, no awkward, to say the least.
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Old 01-28-2011, 08:43 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
Reputation: 17687
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Fifty percent of Blacks and Asians in California voted for Prop 187. Opposition to Illegal Immigration is not merely a right wing white reactionary movement. It's an American Backlash against the elites like Ted Kennedy who foisted this nonsense upon us.

CBS’s Smith Claims Prop 187, Blocking Handouts to Illegals, Lost --8/13/2003-- Media Research Center


[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
Exactly, and we need to hammer the courts with proposed legislation until the Feds do something about this mess.
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