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Old 07-19-2007, 10:27 AM
 
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Maybe this will not be an issue as we become more third world, huh?
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:51 AM
 
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Default Once Again, Culture

Very briefly, here I go again---Culture, always culture. The countries you mentioned (the "west" if you will) are all cultural spinoffs of the judeo-christian culture; specifically, a mostly protestant, very secular type society. In many ways, this culture is the most "modern" in the world, and has largely put its religious roots behind it. I think of it as a sort of "post-christian" society.
This "new" type society has made very sincere and heartfelt efforts to "clean up its act", and to a large degree, to "atone" for its own past sins. This quality alone puts us in a rather unique position in the earth's broad family. To a degree not shared by many others, we feel a moral imperative to reach out to others, include them, and not necessarily expect a lot of gratitude in return. We have lately taken to the notion that we have no right to expect others to accomodate us, or change their ways. The burden is all "on us", we feel.

Needless to say, this ideal is far easier in theory than it is to attain in practice. Lofty ideals notwithstanding, we are still human beings, and subject to all the human emotions of the family of man. These goals don't always "go down" so well for the "man in the street". Nevertheless, they remain our societal standards.

In plain words, "we" (the west) are expected to accomodate others because we SHOULD; our culture DEMANDS it of us, and we are "enlightened", and we can "darn well afford to do it".
Other cultures (the Chinese, the Arabs, and in fact most of the world) are NOT expected to reciprocate, simply because they CAN'T-- their cultures are more xenophobic, harsher, and less "enlightened" than ours, and therefore they aren't EXPECTED to accomodate. They have cultures they're PROUD of, and we can't expect them to "step aside" for outsiders.
Bottom line is that, no, on the face of it, it is not fair. This position holds that the "westerner", simply by virtue of his superior culture, simply OWES IT to others to "take the moral high ground". Perhaps in actual practice, that's the only way we can do it. Insisting on tit-for-tat, across the board give-and-take might result only in bloodshed and violence.
Not an altogether reassuring view, I guess, but I think this post points out a pretty clear picture of the "reason behind the reasons"......
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:32 PM
 
433 posts, read 1,387,731 times
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1) Contempary modern liberalism has drilled into everyone's heads that White people are to blame for all the worlds problems, therefore we aren't allowed to express our identity.

2)Many white people might very well move to other places if it weren't for the fact that most other places are ****holes....(sorry, it's true)

3)Becuase of number two, said liberals guilt trip Western Nations into accepting the residents of said ****holes. Making everywhere a little bit more fun.
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,396 posts, read 6,921,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briarwood View Post
1) Contempary modern liberalism has drilled into everyone's heads that White people are to blame for all the worlds problems, therefore we aren't allowed to express our identity.

2)Many white people might very well move to other places if it weren't for the fact that most other places are ****holes....(sorry, it's true)

3)Becuase of number two, said liberals guilt trip Western Nations into accepting the residents of said ****holes. Making everywhere a little bit more fun.
4) ...and allow the residents of said ****holes to come and to do all the ****hole jobs in their enlightened Western Nations that none of the white poeple in those nations want to do.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:09 PM
 
2,356 posts, read 2,467,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingler View Post
I thought the question was very clear. I do not understand why so many posters did not follow it.
Because when the OP asked about nations that are "required" to be multicultural, it would necessitate some sort of extranational governing body (like NATO or the UN) that was forcing these countries to be a certain way.

This, IMO, waters down the achievement of multiculturalism. Nobody forced western civilization to accept other cultures, they created that concept from scratch. The US wasn't required by anyone to accept Chinese or eastern European immigrants, for example.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:11 PM
 
91 posts, read 229,157 times
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I am assuming that you know that there is no such thing called
"white culture", unless you are referring to the skinhead cousins
of uncle Adolph.

There is culture in societies that are predominantly "white" such as
English, French, German, Italian etc. and they are more proud of their
culture/language than their skin color. And they do have a wonderful
cultural tradition.

That leaves us Americans: We do have a rapidly evolving American
culture, that we all should be proud of. The two most popularly
identified icons of American culture in the world are Hollywood and
Jazz. Jazz was a predominantly "black" creation and Hollywood is
everyone's. So, if you are afraid that our culture is being taken
over by an outsider's, you first have to identify the vulnerable
elements of our culture.

If you are merely afraid that there are more people speaking other
languages, ascribing to other religious beliefs and with different
skin-color and looks in America, you are probably afraid of America
as it was imagined by our founding fathers. They did arrange for ample
protections for the minorities in our constitution even before we
had recognizable minorities.

Be happy that we are multicultural. In a globalized world, if we
speak Mandarin, Japanese or Russian, we stand to make boatloads
of money. With our foreign debt and current account deficit,
that is something we should really work on.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:12 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,625,689 times
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Please PLEASE....my western cultural standards, drilled into me from infancy, dictate that I simply MUST implore ALL of us....let's calm down and act like adults!! Anyone who DOESN'T oughta get his AS***..........(sigh)..
Sorry, everyone. Almost lost my "cool"....
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Ohio, but moving to El Paso, TX August/September
431 posts, read 1,523,638 times
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Going back to the OP, it's because we've come to expect more from certain countries than others over semi-recent and recent history.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:35 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,625,689 times
Reputation: 2983
Default Interesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by normalguy View Post
I am assuming that you know that there is no such thing called
"white culture", unless you are referring to the skinhead cousins
of uncle Adolph.

There is culture in societies that are predominantly "white" such as
English, French, German, Italian etc. and they are more proud of their
culture/language than their skin color. And they do have a wonderful
cultural tradition.

That leaves us Americans: We do have a rapidly evolving American
culture, that we all should be proud of. The two most popularly
identified icons of American culture in the world are Hollywood and
Jazz. Jazz was a predominantly "black" creation and Hollywood is
everyone's. So, if you are afraid that our culture is being taken
over by an outsider's, you first have to identify the vulnerable
elements of our culture.

If you are merely afraid that there are more people speaking other
languages, ascribing to other religious beliefs and with different
skin-color and looks in America, you are probably afraid of America
as it was imagined by our founding fathers. They did arrange for ample
protections for the minorities in our constitution even before we
had recognizable minorities.

Be happy that we are multicultural. In a globalized world, if we
speak Mandarin, Japanese or Russian, we stand to make boatloads
of money. With our foreign debt and current account deficit,
that is something we should really work on.
Many good points to your post, Normalguy. I notice, though, that you refer to the "founding fathers". What you say is true, HOWEVER: The Founding Fathers specifically crafted a wide spectrum of freedoms for the many and diverse heirs of their "new" experiment in self-government. Paramount among these was a freedom from tyranny. We must remember, though, that these men lived in an age of great moral strictures imposed upon all citizens by the peer pressure of their own society, and, in most cases, a stern religion. While going to great lengths to guarantee freedom from external government tyranny, the founding fathers took it for granted that "decent" citizens would still be subject to the "tyranny" of societal norms, and their own consciences. To a great degree, it was simply ASSUMED that decent people would behave decently, or suffer the ostracism of their neighbors.
In recent decades, our "new" society has gone to great lengths to remove all moral aspects from the laws we live under. There is very little written into our laws telling us what we "should" or "must" do. To a large extent, we are acutely aware of all the RIGHTS granted by our constitution, but have largely done away with any agreed-upon RESPONSIBILITIES; these are left to the individual conscience. And not all consciences agree, to put it mildly.
This, in a nutshell, explains some of our modern-day disagreements in this area. .....
Best Regards
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:31 PM
 
2,432 posts, read 6,008,811 times
Reputation: 1009
I don't think any nation, including the US, is required to be multicultural. But many are becoming so due to the lack of border security. The United States, France, England and even Germany somewhat have had their cultures eroded to a large degree because of illegal immigration. In the US, it's the fact that many US citizens themselves don't value American culture, so they turn a blind eye to the fact that we have tens of millions of people here that don't belong here. Other nations like Japan, China and the others that have been mentioned, value their own culture, and these nations protect their beliefs and culture with laws that are enforced.
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