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I'm going to ASSUME this is a joke, myselfdotcom. Did I hear you say that Singapore, Malaysia, and South Africa were multicultural, and that this is therefore a GOOD thing?
Singapore is quite diverse-it has a ethnic Chinese majority, and admittedly, is quite prosperous. However, it is held together by a iron-fisted authoritarian government---are you recommending that for us?---(I guess we DO have a few teen-agers who should be caned)..
Malaysia is a muslim nation- also somewhat diverse. But there's little freedom like we in the West understand it, little ethnic "mixing", and drug possession carries a possible death sentence...care to try that system?
South Africa has one of the most chaotic situations in the "developed" world (a status it seems well on the way to losing). It has one of the world's highest rates of rape, street crime, and HIV infection. Its black majority is fractured, and there are a number of long-established Whites and Indians who are leaving the country. There is even a small movement of Afrikaaners (whites) who are retreating into the back country in a sort of "voluntary apartheid". South Africa had a tragic past (apartheid), and appears well on the way to an even more tragic future.
Any PRAISEWORTHY examples of "multiculturalism" you'd like to share? No disrespect intended, but I don't think you'll find any......Multiculturalism has NEVER been established ANYWHERE long enough to truly be time-tested--and so far, the results are not encouraging...
again you accusing me making assumption about those country..sorry i been there and live in those country before
again you accusing me making assumption about those country..sorry i been there and live in those country before
No disrespect intended, myselfdotcom. But I still don't look at those countries as a "model" for us-- their system just wouldn't be accepted here, and few Americans look at these as desirable places to live. Singapore might get high marks, but doesn't have much room to "spread out"..
I'm going to ASSUME this is a joke, myselfdotcom. Did I hear you say that Singapore, Malaysia, and South Africa were multicultural, and that this is therefore a GOOD thing?
Singapore is quite diverse-it has a ethnic Chinese majority, and admittedly, is quite prosperous. However, it is held together by a iron-fisted authoritarian government---are you recommending that for us?---(I guess we DO have a few teen-agers who should be caned)..
Malaysia is a muslim nation- also somewhat diverse. But there's little freedom like we in the West understand it, little ethnic "mixing", and drug possession carries a possible death sentence...care to try that system?
South Africa has one of the most chaotic situations in the "developed" world (a status it seems well on the way to losing). It has one of the world's highest rates of rape, street crime, and HIV infection. Its black majority is fractured, and there are a number of long-established Whites and Indians who are leaving the country. There is even a small movement of Afrikaaners (whites) who are retreating into the back country in a sort of "voluntary apartheid". South Africa had a tragic past (apartheid), and appears well on the way to an even more tragic future.
Any PRAISEWORTHY examples of "multiculturalism" you'd like to share? No disrespect intended, but I don't think you'll find any......Multiculturalism has NEVER been established ANYWHERE long enough to truly be time-tested--and so far, the results are not encouraging...
Indeed, and perhaps myselfdotcom can tell us, in Singapore and Malaysia, what non-Asiatic cultures are celebrated there? Mexican? El Salvadoran? West African? East African? African-American? Pakistani? Australian? Irish? German? Persian? Eskimo? Amerindian?
Myselfdotcom, what sort of multicultural curriculum do the learing insitutions in Singapore and Malaysia have? Do the politicians in those countries celebrate multicultualism and insist all citizens do the same? What about the media in those countries and their impact on multiculturalism? Do those countries have affirmative action hiring policies designed to socially engineer diversity?
Indeed, and perhaps myselfdotcom can tell us, in Singapore and Malaysia, what non-Asiatic cultures are celebrated there? Mexican? El Salvadoran? West African? East African? African-American? Pakistani? Australian? Irish? German? Persian? Eskimo? Amerindian?
Myselfdotcom, what sort of multicultural curriculum do the learing insitutions in Singapore and Malaysia have? Do the politicians in those countries celebrate multicultualism and insist all citizens do the same? What about the media in those countries and their impact on multiculturalism? Do those countries have affirmative action hiring policies designed to socially engineer diversity?
I think the difference is Singapore and Malaysia have no issues with stomping on their own and making their own people do all the dirty work nobody else wants to do. We in the States are different because we have to deal with the annoying Native Americans, first of all, that were here originally. Then we show a history of preferring to bring in other races to do all the hard labor. Blacks through slavery, The Chinese to build our railroads, Mexicans and Latinos whenever we need cheap laborers who work hard - legally with guest programs throughout our history such as the Bracero Program, or illegally today.
The sticky issue is if we are to consider ourselves a truly enlightened society, the "shining city on the hill", we cannot in our own good conscience forever keep all these people that we bring in to do our work for us as secondary citizens, slave labor. We have to allow that our Constitution says "All men are created equal." So it is kind of a catch 22 our society is currently grappling with.
I am not bringing anybody into the U.S. to do my dirty work. Neither are 99% of all Americans. In fact, I'd like people to *stop* coming here, because it's getting crowded and the labor of the American middle and working classes is being devalued by immigration. But alas, this thread is about multiculturalism, rather than bringing people here to do dirty work so I'm not certain how your post is a response to my previous one, bily4.
I am not bringing anybody into the U.S. to do my dirty work. Neither are 99% of all Americans. In fact, I'd like people to *stop* coming here, because it's getting crowded and the labor of the American middle and working classes is being devalued by immigration. But alas, this thread is about multiculturalism, rather than bringing people here to do dirty work so I'm not certain how your post is a response to my previous one, bily4.
Well your question is "why does America have to be multicultural"? So I told you why. If we did not import people of other cultures here throughout our history to do work, not just because aw gee shucks we are so kind and benevolent - then today we would still be pretty much be Europeans (except for those pesky Native Americans, but at least they are pretty much contained in reservations. )
We brought them here, now we have to deal with them. Simple.
Well your question is "why does America have to be multicultural"? So I told you why. If we did not import people of other cultures here throughout our history to do work, not just because aw gee shucks we are so kind and benevolent - then today we would still be pretty much be Europeans (except for those pesky Native Americans, but at least they are pretty much contained in reservations. )
We brought them here, now we have to deal with them. Simple.
Aren't people of other cultures capable of change? Surely just because they're of several different colors doesn't mean they're different in mental capacity? Why does "multi-racial" have to be "multi-cultural"---do people HAVE to "act White?" or "act Brown" or "act 75% brown with a touch of black and Jewish?"---what is so difficult about asking that people adopt a common set of core values which they can mutually agree upon to ensure a smooth, respectful, functioning society? The Croatians in Yugoslavia just HAD to act croatian, ditto for the Serbs and muslims--NOW look at them!! There are LARGE NUMBERS of Serbs and Croatians in San Pedro (Calif.), and REMARKABLY LITTLE friction !! WEEKS go by without a bombimg, and I can't even REMEMBER the last mass rape!! I live near Black people who actually hold JOBS, and NEVER wear gang colors, and Hispanics who don't even speak Spanish---and I've heard there's even a few WHITES hereabouts who don't brew illegal moonshine whiskey, and don't marry their first cousins---SOMEHOW they've learned not to be so "multicultural"---is it just my immediate neighborhood or what? Seems to ME that this would be a good plan for ANY hypothetical multi-ethnic nation of 300 million people to adopt--but, silly me----guess I'm just a dreamer.....
P.S. Didn't ANY of them bring THEMSELVES here? We had slavery once, but slavery can't explain EVERY thing....did NO ONE come here voluntarily? and if not, is ANYONE lining up to leave?....I haven't heard of it..
Easy, macmeal, easy...I have never seen you so worked up!
To answer your question - Why does "multi-racial" have to be "multi-cultural"---do people HAVE to "act White?" or "act Brown" or "act 75% brown with a touch of black and Jewish?"---what is so difficult about asking that people adopt a common set of core values which they can mutually agree upon to ensure a smooth, respectful, functioning society?
I agree absolutely. They should be respectful and law abiding citizens. If not they should face the penalty of our legal system. They should also be free to wear whatever clothing they want, eat whatever food they want, listen to whatever music they want. (Barring certain standards of dress in certain places of business). And I don't see what the issue is with this. I don't see why we should try to be a little more tolerant and ask them to be tolerant of our tastes. I had to put up with country music on my ship for goodness sake, and I survived.Your point about stereotyping races is well taken. Contrary to some posters around here, many minorities are indeed productive and law abiding citizens in our society... not dreaming up a coup de etat. And personally I think getting the 15 million illegals into the system in some way so they can pay taxes and medical bills and everything else everybody likes to whine about would make sense to reach that smooth running utopian multi-ethnic society you envision for us.
Easy, macmeal, easy...I have never seen you so worked up!
To answer your question - Why does "multi-racial" have to be "multi-cultural"---do people HAVE to "act White?" or "act Brown" or "act 75% brown with a touch of black and Jewish?"---what is so difficult about asking that people adopt a common set of core values which they can mutually agree upon to ensure a smooth, respectful, functioning society?
I agree absolutely. They should be respectful and law abiding citizens. If not they should face the penalty of our legal system. They should also be free to wear whatever clothing they want, eat whatever food they want, listen to whatever music they want. (Barring certain standards of dress in certain places of business). And I don't see what the issue is with this. I don't see why we should try to be a little more tolerant and ask them to be tolerant of our tastes. I had to put up with country music on my ship for goodness sake, and I survived.Your point about stereotyping races is well taken. Contrary to some posters around here, many minorities are indeed productive and law abiding citizens in our society... not dreaming up a coup de etat. And personally I think getting the 15 million illegals into the system in some way so they can pay taxes and medical bills and everything else everybody likes to whine about would make sense to reach that smooth running utopian multi-ethnic society you envision for us.
Your words are measured and, of course, impossible to argue with...But I'll return the compliment you gave me, and say that you are obviuosly an "enlightened fellow" (actually, I'm being the more generous, because, if memory serves, you only classified me as "somewhat" enlightened)..but I digress..
The simple fact is, your sentiments notwithstanding,(and I'm going to ASSUME you are sincere in the above post) you know very well that any attempt to even "suggest" people adapt to "our" culture is met with a veritable firestorm of ACLU-backed charges of xenophobia, insensitivity, and racism---first off is the old tried-and-true, "Whattaya mean, OUR culture?--we don't HAVE a culture--we are a NATION OF IMMIGRANTS, in case you had forgotten !! Hell-ooooo!! remember? IMMIGRANTS !! We have no official culture ! And as for those racists trying to promote an 'official language', well GOOD LUCK to them !! yuck!!"...And that's just for STARTERS.
Culture is inextricably interwoven with race--it's just about impossible to separate them in the minds of the public. Thus the thinking is, official culture=preferred race; to get rid of the notion of a "privileged" race, we must rid ourselves of the notion of a common culture.
The results can be anywhere from comical to tragic-- I recall the interview of a 16 year old Hispanic High School student in our area a couple of years ago, (he was, by the way, some sort of student leader) who remarked "Hey, man, I don't agree with all this history stuff they teach us. George Washington sure wasn't the father of MY country".
You can argue either side of this--(after all, 16-year olds have been known to say stupid things before)-- but I think it vividly points out a huge cultural failing on the part of the public schools. Whatever this kid was being taught (probably "calculus, and sh*t like that")-he was NOT learning to feel a part of the USA. You can talk all day about the insignificance of tradition (ie. "thanksgiving is really just a bunch of h*nkies sitting around a table looking at a dead turkey"), the fact remains that these silly "traditions" and other simplistic rituals are really ALL WE HAVE to make us a unified nation. There's no other feature holding us together--not race, not religion, not ethnicity; NOTHING is going to bind us into a unified whole, if we lose the notion of culture.
And you know, as well as I do, whether or not you feel free to admit it, that any mention of this fact, (including this post you're reading now) is easily construed as having "racist" and "hate-mongering" motives. You just can't deny this with a straight face (no offense intended by using the word "straight") Even YOU YOURSELF, Bily4, are treading perilously close to the teachings of David Duke, when you mention, as you did above "they should be respectful and law-abiding, or face penalties"...Who are YOU to define "respect"....why should ANYONE have to obey a racist or unjust law?...just what kind of "penalties" do you propose?? You probably would LOVE to see DEPORTATION used, wouldn't you ?? HUH??"
In todays climate, an enlightened fellow like you, or me, could very well find himself in the position of having to answer to just such accusatiions. It ain't simple, is it?
The best to you...
PS NONE of the above should be construed to mean that MANY of our troubles cannot be laid squarely at the feet of our OWN cultural failings, as our domestic society turns increasingly mean, selfish, harsh, coarse, and vulgar. These failings, though, don't mean we should abandon ANY effort to resurrect things. One failing doesn't excuse another. I think just a SLIGHT change in our attitude would work wonders. "You want to come here? Fine; but we have a few things we want you to learn and do. And some of them aren't 'Cool'..nevertheless, if you want to come here, these are things you'll have to do. What's that? are we suggesting?, No, I'm afraid you misunderstood--we are INSISTING"...now, try saying THAT and see how far you get--ACLU, are you listening?...
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Crazy Atmosphere
